Grandparents Raising Grandchildren- Beating Burnout, Supporting Marriage, and Thriving Through Change

Support for grandparents raising grandchildren

SPEAKER_02 0:01

What happens when the emergency is over? But the atmosphere in your home still feels like a battlefield. Many kinship caregivers feel their personal retirement story ended the moment they began raising their grandchildren. They're grieving a life lost while navigating a high stakes reality they didn't script. Stephen is a C5 quadriplegic from a diving accident at age 19. His work speaks directly to individuals, caregivers, veterans, and families navigating disability, trauma, PTSD, mental health challenges, and burnout. Stephen joins us to explain why his accident wasn't the end of his story, but the start of a mission and how grandparents can apply that same swaggability to their own lives. We discuss the messiness of partnership, normalizing that alien feeling, the power of humor, and tools you can use for burnout. Stephen's perspective as a retired pastor and a man living with a significant physical disability offers a hand up to every grandparent who feels like they're redlining on stress. Life is a vapor. It's not about doing things for people, it's about doing things with them. In this podcast, we will delve deep into the challenges and triumphs of grandparents raising grandchildren. As we navigate the complexities of legal, financial, and emotional support, I invite you to join us on a journey of exploring thoughts, feelings, and beliefs surrounding this growing segment of our society. Drawing from real stories and expert advice, we will explore the nuances of child rearing for children who have experienced trauma and offer valuable resources to guide you through the intricate journey of kinship care. We'll discuss how we can change the course of history by rewriting our grandchildren's future all within a supportive community that understands the unique joys and struggles. This podcast was made especially for you. Welcome to a community where your voice is heard, your experiences are valued, and your journey is honored. Last week I had a moment with my granddaughter that just reminded me how fragile our sanctuaries can be. Her first six years of life were ruled by trauma, change, yelling, screaming, I can't, I won't. And of course, that one incident triggered a reaction in her and then in me that felt like a 10 alarm fire. And in that second, I wasn't an invisible CEO. I was just a tired grandmother reacting to trauma that didn't even belong to me. And it hit me. We can't lead our families into the future if we're still governed by the adrenaline of the past. Stephen Wagstaff joined me in the boardroom today to help us understand how to de-escalate the environment and move from crisis mode to intentional legacy. Welcome, Stephen. It's so nice to meet you face to face.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yeah, we finally made it happen. I've been looking forward to this. I admire the work you do, and so thank you for allowing me on.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

You're welcome. This is a great connection for both of us. Stephen, you often say that your accident was the start of your mission, not the end of the sh not the end of your story. And in our community of kinship caregivers, many grandparents feel that their retirement story ended the day that they began raising their grandchildren. They're grieving the life that they thought they'd have. I felt the same at first. I think my husband did it as well, but we've come to find this amazing gift that's opened up for us in going through this process. Yes, it's difficult every single day, but there's so many rewards at the end of the day. How do you begin the process of seeing again, moving from the trauma of what you thought you lost, what you did lose, to the purpose of what's right in front of you?

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Great question. Um, I'm not gonna preach even though I'm a pastor, but I think a Caleb in the Bible that at 85 said that someone was looking to win the battle. Caleb's like, I'm still young, give me this melt, and I'll take them in and we'll go. I think seniors, they have amazing things. First of all, they have time and they have wisdom, years of wisdom. Maybe it's not like the old way was, but you've got time and wisdom, and that's something this generation's dying for. Going back to my accident, I had two choices. Uh, when I dove in and broke my neck at 19, I had nothing from the shoulders down for about four months. And the doctors said to my parents, they were blunt and said, the veget vegetative state he is in is what you will have for the rest of your life. So they accepted that, but I still had a brain that fully functioned. And so I tried the, I tried the bitterness. I tried the crying, which has its releases. But what I really found once I was truly honest with myself is that what I now have and had back then, people were interested in because it I was different. I found what I had was a brand new platform. Brand new platform, be able to reach people that are going through the darkest time in their life. And I can say, I truly have something in common with you. And I loved what you said before we were on the air,

Finding purpose through hardship

SPEAKER_01 6:27

not wasting your pain. Julie and I have always, we never would have scripted to lose our child, to lose our parents at young age, for her to go through cancer, my injury. That's not what we scripted, but we said we're not going to waste our scars. And some of the most fulfilling feeling inside and purpose we felt is when we get the email or when we get the call from someone else, and and they're they're in a life-altering situation. And we and your listeners, you've been given a gift. You've got years of lived experience. I had lived experience now as someone who lost everything from the shoulders down and didn't know what I was going to get back. So I tried the other three, and I didn't try the fourth turning to pill or a bottle, but I do know that I would always wake up from that and they'd always be chasing it. So I think true fulfillment is the way I think, again, not to preach, the way we're built as humans is for connection. So whatever situation you find yourself in, you will either always find someone you're equal or someone worse off that you will be able to meet in some way or another that need. So I'd say you're just starting your journey. It just looks different. I'm sitting down, it just looks different, but it gave me a brand new platform to reach people I never would have been able to reach.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

I know that people listening today hear what you're saying, and that resonates with so many of us. There is so much isolation. We've lost friends that don't want to spend time around crying, screaming children that may have challenging mental and physical disabilities. I know for my husband and I, it has brought us closer. Navigating partnership between caregivers is part of the difficulty in all of this. I remember the day we were we were struggling. I'll I'll admit, the first couple of years. My husband and I were living in Montana at the time. We recently relocated to get help with the children. My home of 47 years, I had to

Tough parenting decisions discussed

SPEAKER_02 8:32

leave. We were sitting in the hot tub, and my husband said, I think maybe we should consider finding other parents for the children. And I considered everything. You know, you consider everything in these situations. And in the middle of our conversation, my husband said, You're a natural at being a mother and a parent. He said, This is not not as easy for me as it is for you. And I looked at him and I said, This is really hard for me. This really is not what I chose to do at this time in my life. And I'm doing it because I don't see any other option for the children. And it's the right thing to do. That's why I'm doing this. And he looked at me and he said, Really? That's how you feel? And I said, Yes. Something just melted between us. When he realized that I'm struggling with it just as much as he was, it formed a bond between us. And I just want to tell people out there that oftentimes people look at me and say, Wow, she's got it together. She's got a podcast, she's got all the answers. I want people to know that none of us have the answers. And every single day that we're finding them, tell us how you survived, how your relationship survived all of this. I know you're a strong person. I know you're a pastor, but there must be weak moments for you too.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

I would have never expected, as a retired pastor, to be sitting across from a counselor trying to save our marriage of 24 years. We need to talk about the messiness.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Honesty and true, transparent authenticity between partners is the only way forward. We reached a point where she had just gone through her cancer and she wasn't able to care for me. And I knew it. She was still tired. And we got to a point, she admitted it, she said, I resented hearing your voice in the house. And I said, I resented being under the square roof with you because every answer was met with sarcasm or like anger, and

Starting marriage counseling

SPEAKER_01 10:41

I felt belittled and dumb. So here we are, a pastor, a pastor's wife, marriage in shambles, knowing that the right thing to do is to stay together. And through that counseling, I hated it for the first three weeks. And then I realized that every pastor, every husband and wife, at some point needs to talk to a counselor because having a neutral ground to speak honestly back to you, that's not partial in either way, truth is truth, no matter which way it lands. And I I accepted that. And for the first time, I wasn't there trying to defend myself. I was able to share how I felt, where the emotion was taken out of it. There was no adrenaline, there was nothing. And she felt free to share exactly how she was feeling without anyone ready to jump on and defend it. It was the best thing. It saved our marriage. And out of that, we learned tools that are so valuable, like when we when conflict arises, to give it time till things subside, and then book a time to sit down and talk about it tomorrow with level heads. Just different for me to realize that yes, she has aged. And maybe unconsciously, even though I was trying to not ask more of her, she's feeling more isolated. So the whole thing we learned was if anything we learned, honesty and communication, you can survive so much as long as those are two bedrock principles in your relationship: authenticity, honesty, and the willingness to speak transparently. We're not always going to agree with one another. Um, but we've been okay to agree to disagree and be able to move on. And that's any relationship, husband, wife, caregiver, whatever. I was not ready for a caregiver at 48 years old. I realized that my wife's well was dry and past dry. So now my priority is making sure that she's rested, she's visited her girlfriends, she's doing whatever because when she is at her best feeling good, our relationship is much better. She has more to give to me, and I'm much more empathetic to say, go out and do that because not selfishly, because you'll be better for me, but I like seeing you happy. I've always said that 20 or 30 years ago, nobody talked about it. Kind of a closet sickness. She never said the word depression. Caregiver burnout is that today. People one in five are caring for a loved one in America, whether they want to or not, in an unpaid situation. And I can know it splits families. I know it causes angst, but the best thing is two things. I've said honesty, transparency. But thirdly, it's having the conversation before the crisis. So talking about what this could look like and what it may look like before it actually happens is so much better than just responding to, oh my goodness, what are we going to do with these two? Or what am I going to do with him? You've already kind of started to lay plans down ahead of time. I was don't avoid conversations that sooner or later are going to hit home.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

I love that so much. I know because of the trauma I went through as a child, that my first instinct is to run.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

I call it the neurobiology of hope. Psychologically, when we have hope, we can do so much. But I love your idea of thinking of what we can do to fill another's cup. Sometimes that's hard to do.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Easier said than done for sure.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

Right. If we're stuck, if we're stuck in the trauma, um, and and we and we can't think about being in that thriving place. But when we are thriving and we can find a way of filling another, our spouse, I'm speaking specifically, because I'm always thinking about how to help the children. And children are very needy. You know, they don't understand. I'm constantly telling them that they should be more appreciative, that they should be more thankful for all the things they have when they're being rude or bratty or whatever thing things kids do. But talking just about partnership, thinking about how we can fill them when they're dry, because we are always both in those places at various times.

Choosing health and letting go

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Yeah. I I can honestly say thriving where life finds you is a choice. Because even when we don't think there's an option, there is. Sometimes we are unwilling to let go of something that we're holding on to so tight because we think we're the best at it or we have the answer for it. Therefore, it must be that way. But I know that God created us. I know we are made in a way that the world will not end if we let go of certain things, because the more important principle is we need to be healthy first before our kids are ever going to be blessed. If we are always angry, tired, burnt out, that's gonna foster resentment later on down the road. It's not selfish. And Julie would say this, and wish she was here. She had to learn it's not selfish to say no, or not at this time, uh in a minute, or can we look at this after? Or is that an emergency that needs to be taken care of right now? It was just reframing um our thinking, and again, uh being completely transparent and knowing that the world will not fall apart if you fail to do X. There are others, there's always a way. God didn't design us in a way that you know we're gonna instantly crash and burn if there's always help. So that's the other point. Reach out, reach out to us, to your means. There are people out there willing and able to step in, but it's being able to release that grip that I can do it best, I know it best. It's it's giving yourself permission to be okay and to get refueled. And um, that's a hard one because people feel selfish for saying, Well, I I can't do that for them right now.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Brings up something very important as well to me. How do you honor your disability, the pain of disability? I'm speaking about your physical disabilities, but I'm also talking about our own personal disabilities. How do we honor that and allow ourselves to uh to grieve when we're in pain or when we're not able to be there for the children, in whatever capacity for our spouses, without letting it be a permanent ceiling of our potential?

SPEAKER_01 17:38

I think the first thing we need to do, and it's gonna sound really weird, but is to normalize it. I when I was first a quadriplegic, they put me in a private room. Worst thing they could have done is when it came to being out in public, I wasn't gonna look like that person, I wasn't gonna act like that person, I wasn't gonna be one of them, even though I had no choice but to be. I couldn't move from the neck down. So when I started to normalize the fact that, okay, there are others like this, they're living fulfilled lives. I hear them laughing. There's gotta be a way through it. And what I had to drop was the mindset that I am somehow different, and different means not important, unappreciated now. It's none of that. It's a different way of looking at my disability and going, it's a different ability. And all of us go in and out of disability our whole lives. We're born unable to do things. Sometimes you'll have a workplace injury. We're moving in and out of this ability or disability all the time. I think when we normalize it and go, yes, maybe there's some people that stare or whatever, but for most of the most people in society, they accept that people have disabilities, and it's okay. Um I think the biggest disability we sometimes have is in between our ears. I I came to accept it that it's not going to change. I can try my hard to stay healthy, but it's not going to change. Um, and bitterness, anger, and crying. I tried them, but who wants to be around that? And it made me worse. So it was me figuring out that being comfortable in my own skin is

Inclusivity in church ministries

SPEAKER_01 19:14

okay. I've said this about churches, but I say it about the world in general. The church is always looking to do things for people with disabilities. Let's have a ministry for people with disabilities. And I think the biggest downfall in the church, and I love the church, retired pastor, I would say they need to reframe the question and say, rather than doing things for, why not do things with? Uh rather than doing things for, recognize the innate value that they have. Stop worrying about having to have the perfect service or stop worrying about having to have the perfect looking family and say, rather than doing for these people, let's do things with. They still have value. They can do things, let them have self-worth. And in doing that, not only do they grow, but I think it alleviates you from having to protect against this everything's got to look perfect. It's not. We live in a fallen world. It's not perfect. We just got to normalize it between our ears that it's okay that we're different and messiness happens.

Being a grandparent raising kids

SPEAKER_02 20:15

And I do think grandparents that are raising children do feel suddenly like they are disabled and that the world looks at them that way. We walk into a grocery store. I had a woman literally do this the other day. I took my grandson, who's six years old, to a jump place where there's lots of trampolines, and mother came right up to me and she looked at me like I was an alien. And she said, Is that your son? Are those both your sons? And I know I don't look like I'm a 30-year-old mother anymore, but I looked at her and I said, No, that one is mine. The other one is his friend. And then I I just smiled at her and I said, I hope you have a great day. And I left because I realized I forget that people look at me that way because I'm a grandmother with a child, and I'm and he's calling me mom.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

And so they know what the neat thing is though? I'm sorry to interrupt. Like we have a gentleman up the road and they're doing the same thing. Gordon and his wife, and the child's been in trouble with the law. I have such respect for those people. And I I could say this to your listeners. You may meet the Debbie Downer or whoever you meet. I can promise you, that's the minority. That's the minority speaking. But our brains, for some reason, choose to ruminate on the minority. I think most people would look at that situation and go, what wonderful people for doing that. I mean, not that you want to be put on a pedestal, but I can't imagine your situation. And I applaud you for it. And I think that's the majority of people, but sometimes when those situations happen, it takes the wind right out of our sails. I'm not big into ableism. I hate the word, but it's a new tag word for disabled people. I don't flow with the disabled community. No, but it's just another ism because people's feelings are hurt. But crazy. It's the minority, and we focus on the minority when the majority don't see any difference. And we spend so much of our hard drive space thinking about the ones that that did cause the personal injury. Yes, hurt happens. And I don't invalidate that. I've been hurt even recently. But my wife had to remind me that, you know what, like that's it was one circumstance. And I feel sorry for the person for having that mindset. How rough of a life or insecure must they be if they've got to put someone else down? Because that's the truth behind it. I respect people that take on tasks that are seem bigger than themselves and and are okay with it. I I just think the world of them.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

It's just strange, I think, for a lot of us because we were on this path of oh, I finally got into retirement. And for a lot of us have had difficult lives or been through divorce or loss of a child, you know, at this point in our life, in our 50s, 60s, and 70s. But, you know, the concept of retirement is such a pedestal that we all work for. And this is alienating. I think there are so many grandparents out there raising grandchildren that struggle with feeling comfortable in this alien world, feeling comfortable in this disabled world and being around young parents who are getting Botox, finally building their huge homes, driving their fancy cars, sending their kids to all these different activities. And we're just trying to get by. It's only been four years for me, but I'm starting to uh find the comfort in being in this new skin.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Again, here's me trying not to preach, but I do preach.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

But you're pastor.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

I look at it as this is that life is but a blip on the radar. And I've talked to so many people that get to the retirement years and go, I thought it would be different. I thought I'd have the the freedom, the money, the house, the Florida. That doesn't cut what the what the heart longs for. He's built for relationship. We're built for eternity. And um, I think if we could look at it from me, I look at it as I'm in this shell of a body for a small bound of time. But my greater hope is that when I close my eyes in death that the Lord returns, to me, it's an instant instantaneous change into something that'll be made whole. And I think we'll all be it. Bible talks about being rewarded for the different things we did with our time. And so many people save up with that nest egg and they get there and are so disappointed with it. I think that's the same thing I did. I thought it would look so much different. And then when I finally was okay to be who I am, I am different. And that's not going to change. So let's just normalize it and be who we are and realize that for me, it's only for a season. Life is a vapor. You know how quick it goes by. But for me, my hope lies in eternity. And that's why helping people, I think, is the greatest thing you can do. That's what stokes my fire. It's tiring at times, but I I couldn't imagine doing anything else but pouring into people.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Steven, you founded swag ability to help people thrive through life's toughest challenges. For a caregiver who's currently redlining on burnout, what is the first tool in the swag ability toolbox that you think they should reach for?

SPEAKER_01 25:52

The first is their tongue and their mouth talk to somebody else, whether it's us, but to have a conversation with their loved one or a family meeting or whatever. If it's a company, they need to replace the worker. If it's family, which we're talking about, then it's having that family conversation that this is going to be unhealthy for me. It's going to be an uh a ripple effect that's going to affect the children in a negative way if I don't soon get help, because my health isn't going to last. Um, it's not just the money, it's my health.

Having tough conversations with family

SPEAKER_01 26:27

So it's the first thing I would do is have a conversation with a loved one, someone you trust, a pastor, so you can then have the conversation with whoever you're caring for, saying that, look, mom and dad, for a week or two, whatever, three, a month, I don't know what it is, things are going to change for a little bit just because we need to take care of something for ourselves so that it's better for you in the long run. I don't know how you verbalize that to them, but it's a conversation. And then no matter how the reaction is, that doesn't alter your plan to somehow get your cup filled. Because the world won't stop if you let someone in to the picture. Some of us don't want to because it looks messy. It's okay. God specializes in messiness, but let someone into the messiness. There will be an answer. You're not the savior. The Messiah complex can make you very sick and unhealthy. So let people in and have a conversation and then do that thing that you've always wanted to do, or go to that place, or try and find a place that can help you to take that vacation or whatever. That's why we started swag ability to try and alleviate that pressure valve that's ready to go off and everyone's going to reach it. So I don't know if that's a tool or not, but those would be steps that I would take.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

I know that you often speak about how hard-earned wisdom and humor is the best can serve as a biological buffer against the despair that we could be focusing on rather than the impact that we can make.

unknown 28:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Tears and humor are a gift that we need to capitalize on. Laughing at and with is the best medicine for Julie and I, whether I'm laying on the floor because I've fallen, or whether it's just an awkward situation in a store where a kid stares at you so much, knocks over a whole display. And it's just laughing. It's just laughing. It it releases endorphins and it just neutralizes the situation.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Would you tell the listeners where they can find your show?

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Sure. You can go to swagability.com and from there you can link out the swag ability show is on all whatever platform you choose to listen to podcasts on. Just search the Swag Ability Show. And we're releasing a new one soon called Interrupted by Adversity. Um People's Lives Were Going Along fine until that call, whatever, they answered it, and learning encouragement, how they got through it. Swaggability.com. But if you could follow us on any of your podcast platforms or on YouTube, that that helps even more than a donation in some ways. So thank you for the opportunity to share that.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Well, yes, and I'll put that link in the show notes as well.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Super. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

I'm asking three questions of all those that I interview these days since the beginning of January. One is a systematic question, one is a taboo question, and one is a policy question. My systematic question for you, Stephen is our society often views disability and full-time caregiving as limitations rather than specialized leadership. What is the biggest flaw, do you think, in how we support families who are managing long-term physical or emotional trauma?

SPEAKER_01 29:45

What's the biggest flaw?

SPEAKER_02 29:46

In our system, in our society, in how we support families that are trying to manage these disabilities and traumas.

Accepting imperfections and letting go

SPEAKER_01 29:56

I think number one, the biggest flaw is trying to keep it behind closed doors. Not being okay with the reality of what it is. Reality is reality, and it will seep out the cracks of your life if you try and hold it all in. I'm not saying just throw all caution to the wind, but be okay with not being okay. And then the second one is that um is thinking that if I don't or if I stop doing this for a short time, the world's gonna end. And I know that seems impossible, especially to women, to think my wife would say that, but it is true. If she leaves for a girl's weekend or whatever, there's family here, there's caregivers or whatever, I might be ill. She will not stay home. I want her to go. I have a hospital. Things will be okay if you're not there. Take the breath, take whatever you need. It may not even be a vacation, just go away somewhere, little cost, make sure you're building date nights in, intentional time, because if you don't make it intentional, it won't happen. If you don't set such and such a time aside on a Monday afternoon, that will is a non-negotiable. We're gonna spend two hours or an hour doing this, no interruptions, cell phones away, kids will figure out where they go or what they have to do, but that's our time and you guard it with your life.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

And then the taboo question, I I agree with you. I think this stuff shouldn't be behind closed doors. What we see is too pretty most of the time, and that's really a very small percentage of our lives. I wish people saw the messy part more often. It would make others feel more normal.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Chasing magazine covers and people with millions of YouTube subscribers is always gonna leave you longing and gonna leave you tired. They got there in a way, but what they build and portray out front, we know based on our lives, that's not the reality. That's just a form of entertainment that we have looked at.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

They're normal in uh their way, but they're no more special than we are. Yeah. Yeah. Don't don't chase what the others look like.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

Totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Authenticity is worth more than any amount of money you can have. People will respect authenticity before the before they'll respect the polished picture of a family or grandparents raising kids.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Nobody likes to talk about the anger that comes with caregiving. As a pastor, how do you help people navigate that frustration or a life-altering change such as yours or ours?

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Anger is a natural emotion, and anger is not a bad thing. Just the avenue of that anger and how it's directed needs to be something

Healthy ways to manage anger

SPEAKER_01 32:39

that's not destructive. You can take your anger out by playing a game of tennis, going for a long walk. Expelling anger doesn't need to be yelling at somebody or someone. You can feel that inside, and that's perfectly fine. We're gonna get angry. We just gotta be careful how we ground that anger. And uh we can ground it in healthy ways, and uh there's numerous ways you can ground anger. The best way to do it is usually to dispel it on your own or with a loved one, as opposed to aim it at people that may have caused it, but I try to reverse the rules. Like, what if that was me and it was just kids being kids or mistake that yes, they should have known, but you were there at one time too. And so allowing some grace in that situation. But you definitely need to ground anger or it just becomes like a pot that's gonna explode. So finding a finding an avenue to vent that anger, there's lots of ways to do that.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

So true. Here's my policy question for you. If you were COO of the country, what one non-negotiable rule would you implement to ensure that caregivers and people with disabilities aren't just provided for, but are actually empowered to thrive and lead?

Building self-worth and opportunity

SPEAKER_01 33:53

It would go back from that handout. I've always said that in our organization, we want to give a hand up, not a handout. I'm looking to make people that are born with value and are born in God's image, give them the value who they are, give them opportunities, provide ways for them to feel good about themselves by being who they are, whatever mental level they're at. They have they have things that push their joy button, allow them to experience it without trying to take that away from it or throw money at it. Money won't fix it. Yes, there are financial programs that need to be in place to allow it, but it's not so much doing things for, doing things with, whether that's employment, finding something at their level, building into them self-worth. And when they've have self-worth built into them, they'll be new people. They won't be searching for that anger, they won't be searching for the whatever. Find something that allows them to have self-worth and again normalize it. And society will adjust. Society will. We always have. And this will work itself out too. But those are two principles I would probably put in place. But I would never want to run a country. I know myself.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Yes, neither would I. But at least we can uplift and bring hope as you have to us today. Thank you so much for your time and your spirit and your goals. We all need each other so much. That is why I encourage listeners to bring these messages to others and to provide community for each other. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

You're welcome. I I really enjoyed being a guest on this side of the mic, and it was a privilege to be here.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Thank you, Stephen. Step into the reflection room with me. Think about the last flash fire in your house, the yelling, the defiance, the slam doors. Were you leading that moment or were you just surviving it? Stephen reminded us today that our grandchildren are looking to us to see if the world is finally safe. Ask yourself if I committed to just five minutes of executive silence during the next meltdown, how would the return on investment change for my grandchild's heart? On episode 30, we met Mary Helziger, who was in the thick of a legal and emotional battlefield. She shared the heartbreaking story of a foster placement that was locked out by the system and the emergency call that brought her eight-month-old granddaughter into her care. Today we're celebrating a massive executive win. Mary is back to give us the update we've all been waiting for. The adoption is final. Next week we're auditing what it actually takes to win against a slow, cumbersome system and how life changes once the temporary labels are finally removed. Don't forget we are 2.7 million strong, still nurturing and still here. We are the ones rewriting the history of our families, refusing to let the past dictate the potential of the next generation. Your presence is the most stable infrastructure your grandchild will ever know. Keep nurturing, keep leading, and I'll see you in the next boardroom.