Adopting Your Grandchild: Navigating Court Hurdles and Winning

Grandparents raising grandchildren challenges

SPEAKER_00 0:00

On episode 30, we met a grandmother in the middle of a legal minefield. At that time, she chose to remain anonymous. Today, the mines have been cleared. Mary Helsieger is back to share the update we've all been waiting for. The adoption is final. We're discussing the exact courtroom moment the system woke up, the silly clerical error that almost derailed the process, and what it feels like to finally baptize a child into your family legacy after years of waiting. So if you're drowning in red tape, this is your survival guide for the finish line. Welcome to Grandparents Raising Grandchildren, Nurturing Through Adversity. In this podcast, we will delve deep into the challenges and triumphs of grandparents raising grandchildren. As we navigate the complexities of legal, financial, and emotional support, I invite you to join us on a journey of exploring thoughts, feelings, and beliefs surrounding this growing segment of our society. Drawing from real stories and expert advice, we will explore the nuances of child rearing for children who have experienced trauma and offer valuable resources to guide you through the intricate journey of kinship care. We'll discuss how we can change the course of history by rewriting our grandchildren's future all within a supportive community that understands the unique joys and struggles. This podcast was made especially for you. Welcome to a community where your voice is heard, your experiences are valued, and your journey is honored. I have to tell you, seeing Mary smile today is a different experience than our last talk. Last time she was on pins and needles. Today she has permanent authority. I recently went through my own messy middle, moving closer to family, dealing with my father's passing, and helping my mother transition to assisted living. It reminded me that our lives aren't sitcoms, they are club sandwiches, four generations of needs stacked on top of each other. Mary's story is a reminder that even when the system is slow and even when life is a triple decker of chaos, winning is possible. We aren't just babysitting, we're securing a successor. Mary, the last time we spoke, you were navigating a protective custody situation with a lot of uncertainty. And then this November in 2025, you actually finalized your adoption papers with your granddaughter.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yes. Yes, we did.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Congratulations. Thank you. It was it was a long process, to say the least. Oh gosh, it's not just a piece of paper. What was the exact moment that you knew that the tide had actually turned in your favor?

SPEAKER_03 3:36

So I want to say it was uh June or maybe July, July of 2024. We were in court, virtual, but in court, and mom, the mom did not show. And I had concerns uh regarding visits. And the mom had disclosed to us that she had been a victim of sexual assault entering her apartment. She was involved with a gang, and this was an attack from a high-level gang member. And so she didn't want to go to the police.

Concerns about safety during visits

SPEAKER_03 4:17

She did tell the caseworker that she had fears for her life, that people were following her. She was not doing drug screens, she was not making progress in her case, and she was showing a lot of instability. And there were people in her life that were controlling her. She disclosed this during a visit, and part of the visit was leaving my granddaughter stepping away and leaving her with mom and caseworker and hoping for the best. And those visits at the time were in a public park in Chicago. So at any point, you know, any gang member could have shown up, um, you know, something could have happened. And the court rarely asked me to speak, usually didn't have the opportunity, but for whatever reason, they asked, did I have something to say? And I started to talk about that, and they gave me a breakout room and gave me the opportunity to speak as to what was going on. And I said, somebody here in this system needs to wake up and you need to tell me how you're going to protect my granddaughter, how you're going to protect me during this visit, how you are going to protect the parent. And what are you going to do for your caseworker if somebody comes shooting or and and with a gang that she's involved with that was not out would not be out of the question that that could happen. So I said, tell me, how are you going to protect us? Are you looking for this at the time 60, 61-year-old grandmother to throw her body over all of them and protect them? What's your game plan? And and they woke up. They finally woke up and said, We're going to have to assess safety, and they agreed to suspend visits until they could do a better assessment of the mother, her living situation, the people she was, you know uh with, all of it. And finally someone hurt us. And I think when visits stopped happening, I think my granddaughter settled because they were traumatic. I think she sensed that things weren't safe. Sure. A lot of things just started to move, and I felt like they were finally forced to really assess the situation and see it for the danger that it was.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

I know what was happening when I spoke with you the last time. I know how much you've stayed on top of this case and how challenging it was in your state to get the kind of support that you needed. And finally you got it. Yes, finally. How has that atmosphere in your home change now that the visits and the DCFS check-ins are officially over?

Dealing with everyday parenting

SPEAKER_03 7:09

You know, everything is so much more relaxed. We're just parenting as usual, dealing with the normal day-to-day things that come up. We're not worried about, you know, short notice of a visit. Let's get the house clean and act like we always live this way. I mean, because everybody does it. No matter how much you get to know your caseworker and everything, and they get they get that you're a family, that you're busy. There's all this preparation. You feel like you've always got to put that front on. And we really liked our caseworker. I mean, I enjoyed the visits with her. She was like a bright spot in all of it. But still, you know, it is what it is. You're being assessed, the child is being assessed in your home. It's it's very artificial. So now we just get to live our lives. And it took took a little bit getting used to it. We were at first we were kind of numb, but the adoption happened, and then we were just like, what's next? We're so used to being on pins and needles, and now we're not.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

I see you smiling more than you were the last time I saw you.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

Very stressed out, very stressed out before. So afraid for our granddaughter, for you know, just just because you don't have control. You have no legal control and you're just dependent on others.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Back then we talked about your granddaughter's initial social disconnect. She wasn't crying and engaging. Now that she's 65% of her life into your care and officially your daughter, what does her attachment profile look like today?

SPEAKER_03 8:48

I think so much more normal. She is a typical demanding four-year-old. She wants what she wants. We she gets most, she gets everything she needs and a lot of what she wants. She borders on being spoiled, so she's a little shocked when she doesn't get an immediate reaction from us, so very different than the infant she was when we first got her. And she didn't even look for interaction with people. She's a little bit on the clingy side. You know, it's hard because it's me and my husband and two adult children that live in the house. So she gets a lot of adult attention. So she's not good at not getting attention. Some of that is just the unusual dynamic of a four-year-old having a 19-year-old brother and a 21-year-old sister. But I I That's awesome. It is. She gets a lot of attention, but I still see a little of the clinginess because I do think that the early neglect being left for long periods of time in a car seat or in a stroller, strapped in and pushed in a room and ignored, I think that that has left, you know, a kind of a permanent mark on her.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

All of these kids have permanent marks. You mentioned in the past that the system often dismisses the expertise of the caregivers. During the adoption process, how did you and your husband with your backgrounds in HR and project management use your skills to keep moving the case forward?

SPEAKER_03 10:17

So for me, I work mostly in employee relations and I do a lot of investigations into harassment and discrimination and and violence in the workplace and and performance issues, performance failures, um personal, personal conflicts. So I'm always investigating. So that's easy for me to see their side of things. But I also have to be careful not to get too aggressive. Because you don't ever want to. You know, you don't want them to become estranged to take care of your child and and not be at odds. So it's a fine line. And, you know, with my husband, more I would say, I don't think as much that he kind of leaned on his work. He's more of the charming of the two of us. I kind of joke that people like him better. Like even my own parents, I think, like my husband better. He's just a friendlier person. And I know the caseworker always got a kick out of him when he would bring our granddaughter to the visits. She really liked talking to him. I guess that was that was his superpower, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:40

You know, being being charming. We all have our superpowers. What what was the biggest bottleneck that you think that you faced during the final stretch of the adoption and and how did you end

Termination of parental rights process

SPEAKER_00 11:52

up getting through it?

SPEAKER_03 11:53

You know, it was kind of silly in retrospect, but we had this hearing where they made the decision that they were proposing termination of parental rights, involuntary terminate termination of parental rights. And we thought that that was it, that they were gonna propose it, and that they would get one opportunity for a hearing, and the decision would be made, right? Well, that was in October, and then in January we finally had the hearing, but it wasn't the hearing we thought it was gonna be. It was to go over termination of parental rights, what the steps were to make sure the mom understood it. And then we met again in February for like 10 minutes, which was just to schedule the trial. Okay, so it's October, November, December, January, February. So they go to schedule the trial, and mom decides that she's gonna voluntarily relinquish. She decides she doesn't want to go through the termination of parental rights. There are some legal benefits to her doing that. It closes her case, and then she doesn't have that on her own record as a parent that she had to go through TPR. So we have that hearing and she agrees she's gonna voluntarily relinquish, but somebody in the system marks in the paperwork that our granddaughter is a male. So they throw it out. Sorry, we can't we can't proceed because when you adopt, if that's where this is headed, you choose to adopt, we have to identify the correct child. We can't say you're adopting a male. Probably a good thing. Right? So sorry, but we're gonna reschedule. So there we scheduled for another month, and mom didn't show because she was once again a victim of domestic violence and she was hospitalized. She had been beaten, was hospitalized. So we then had to reschedule again. And then at the next hearing, she did finally say that she was voluntarily relinquishing and she was making the decision being of sound mind. So that was October through June. All of that. Yeah. Wow. Um they began the TP TPR proc process October of 2024. But it took until November 2025 for the adoption.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

So there was a year in there that you had her that you were still waiting to find out. Right. For grandparents that are listening who are currently drowning in a lot of this red tape, what is one of the one piece of legal or systematic advice you wish you'd known on day one? On day one.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

I guess I wish I would have understood uh that the system, DCFS, however you want to phrase that, it's a little different in every state, but in most states, they are required to place children with fictive kin, you know, family or fictive kin friends before they place with strangers. They are to make that effort. And they are to provide the supports to those family members. And in many states, the same supports that they provide foster parents. And but what they'll try to do is bully you into taking on all the transportation or supervising visits. They try to push a lot on you and hold this threat over your head that if you don't do these things, we're gonna take the child and put them with strangers, which they can't

Challenges of Grandparent Custody

SPEAKER_03 15:42

do. I mean you know, so I would say you need to be prepared to know. Just know what's gonna happen. You have to know what's gonna happen. So the moment you're placed with a, you know, with a grandchild, I'm sorry to say, you need to figure out what your rights are. You need to be prepared for the threats that are gonna come your way. Because they're they're going to do this because they don't want to be inconvenienced. And one of the things that they I have heard in some states that DCFS will do is they'll bring a child to your doorstep and say, if you don't take this child as a grandparent, we're gonna put them in the system. And of course, every grandparent says, please don't do that. And then they take the child and then they get no stipend, no assistance, no medical card. Right. That's what happened to me. Right. And but what they're actually doing is they're trying to close the case, which they should not do because it's their responsibility to work that case, make sure the parent is progressing, compliant in their case plan and all that. But what they're doing is shirking the work onto the family. I I don't quite know what the fix is because I'm fortunate. Illinois is very, very slow in many respects. However, when it comes to fictive kin, they are very good. We have a our governor has done a lot to try to ensure that DCFS places with family and friends and that they give them the support. So we're fortunate in that respect. But I've heard from a lot of grandparents that that's not the case in their states. I will say one other thing that I hear a lot of grandparents push back on, and and I and one of the those things is when you're asked to train as a foster parent and they think, well, I'm not doing this for strangers' kids. These are just my kids, my family. I don't want to go through this process, I don't want to do a background check, or I don't want to go through all this exhaustive training. I'm stressed, I'm busy. Do it anyway, because they're gonna allow you to keep the kids while you're doing it. They're gonna be gentle with you with the amount of time it takes. But that training, it teaches you about the system. It teaches you about the resources, it teaches you about everything that's gonna happen in court, what the steps are of a case. Um it, you know, it also there are parts of the training which are specifically training you about trauma. Because as a foster parent, just the fact that a child has been removed from their home is trauma in itself. You may think, well, it's my grandchild. I know my grandchild. But what you might have come to accept as just normal to that child or part of their personality may not be that at all. It may be trauma. Yeah.

unknown 18:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

And this will prepare you to be a better parent for that child and to know what kind of resources to ask for. And most of the training now, I think, is available online. So you have a lot of flexibility when you do it, and it's not going there in person like it was 10 years ago. So definitely take them up on it. And in some states, that monthly stipend, sometimes it's higher if you've trained as a foster parent, and you're not required to take more children in, but you might have more of a a benefit.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Yes, I wish we'd done that. Because if we had done that, we would have gotten a stipend, and we don't get a stipend because of that. We just wanted to get our our grandchildren and and bring them home because I understand they were fear.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

The fear factor is so huge.

Navigating foster care challenges

SPEAKER_00 19:24

But if I had known that and someone had said to me, Well, here's what we can do, that wasn't presented to me that way. And they were not looking out for my best interest in the state of Texas where we got the kids. They're so overburdened that and our case, which was a bad case, they said one of the better cases that they were trying to deal with. So they just wanted to move that child out of the way. And when I tried to recontact them, they didn't want anything to do with me. They were like that those kids are with good people and we're not gonna worry about them and we're moving on to the next. That's great advice to parents because we do want to ensure that that our kids are in the best situation they can be in as soon as possible, but it also has had a long-term effect on us financially. And had I had the trauma education, it would have been very helpful.

Adoption training and child counseling

SPEAKER_03 20:25

Right. And we had already had it be, you know, because we were former foster parents, but we did also go through adoption training leading up to that, which was kind of a nice refresher. It's much shorter, but it was a nice refresher on it too. But we did actually um end up getting counseling for my granddaughter, which was another thing. Initially, we were told, oh, well, you know, she's too young for play therapy, then come to find out that no, there are specialists that deal with infants that have had trauma, you know, abuse and neglect and can work with very, very small young children. And that was other information that we weren't given, which we just by chance got from our county. We were looking for a Head Start program and they introduced the idea of it. And again, you know, our caseworker, even though she didn't have all of those resources and she was in a different county that made it hard, she signed off on it right away the moment we asked for it. You know, she was really great at giving us every resource she possibly could. And approving it, making the making the financial things happen that needed to happen on the back end.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

That's great. I'm glad you brought that up. I know that even with a win that they're scars. And I know that you have three other children that all have neurodiverse issues. And I know that the the whole threat of removal had a big impact on your family. are they healing now that that threat is gone?

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

I know for I will say for my husband and daughter, both of them, but especially my daughter, it's been huge for her. It was a constant worry that you know that our granddaughter was going to be taken in and harmed. Mm-hmm. And it added a lot to her anxiety. And and she didn't understand, she's 21 but still young and not having to deal with this, didn't understand all the legal steps. And with every hearing she would say, is it done yet? Is it done yet? Is she ours? I mean is she safe? And we'd have to say well no that's that's just this hearing and that's just that hearing and now we have to wait two months. The stress on her, it wa it was a lot. And I think now she is is so settled. And what's interesting between her and my son that live at home our granddaughter I want to say it was like eight or nine months before the adoption happened. She just started calling us mom and dad and then that wasn't auntie anymore. It was sister and it it wasn't uncle anymore. It was brother and she just something snapped and that's what she saw us as and that's what she stuck with.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

Wow. Yeah on her own shows how deep that settling went for her.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

And for the I'm so glad to hear it was about at the point where when her mom made the decision to voluntarily relinquish and I don't know what she understood of the conversations around her, but she must have understood it's okay I get I'm staying here. This is this is my place.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yes. Yes. I know I know that your granddaughter's mother was originally your foster daughter. Are you aware at all of what is going on with her now?

SPEAKER_03 24:08

In court, you know they gave her my husband's email address. That's the contact we kind of agreed to and she could email and check and see you know how her daughter was doing updates or whatever. She's never reached out. So um I don't think she's in a good place. She didn't continue with services because even after termination of parental rights if the family you know for a period of time for the family of origin, they will give them some services if they need assistance with housing and just different things she never reached out to anyone but there is always with unfortunately there is a potential for trafficking which is why you know future contact we have to tightly control that. I'm sure how did your granddaughter deal with knowing what's going on with her biological mother

Child's reaction to mother's situation

SPEAKER_03 25:02

a little confused by it and also very protective kind of defense defensive of her mom. She didn't want to hear anything negative about her. She told us and this is coming from a three year old that if anyone said anything bad about her mom they were going to jail. We cannot say anything bad about her but the depth of her understanding was incredible. We did go bring her into counseling and we were very concerned about are we saying the wrong things? How do we how do we describe this? We have a a life book that we were sharing with her with pictures and telling her her story and some of the things were very upsetting but it's what DCFS encourages you to do to do and we thought well maybe we need to back off and then also at what point do we say to her you know mom is unsafe because we need to tell her why she isn't having visits and why you know all the things right and while she was in therapy she referred to the old house where the old people lived and she met people she used to live with and she said they just need the right medication and I said what do you mean by that and she said they take bad medication if they could just take the right medicine they would be okay and I just was like flabbergasted like you know she's hearing What do you think she meant? She meant that literally or figure substance abuse and with her mom's mental health issues that somehow she had connected that she just needs the right medicine and I said well I asked her what do you mean and she says well when you give me my medicine I feel better Tylenol.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

That's you know Tylenol and antibiotics is the only thing she's ever taken but she said you know when I'm when I'm sick you give me my medicine and I feel better and they just need the right medicine and I just thought wow and that's age three so you know what they're hearing something and they're absorbing and something is going on that you need to address I've said this to other people at first it was really difficult for me to have these conversations with my granddaughter things that I certainly don't want to talk about and I thought perhaps she didn't but then I realized she's seen these things they have to be put in their place. And I'm amazed and it's sad that that that they've seen all this but then it helps to be able to have conversations with people because they really can understand so much. We have to be delicate about the way in which we say things and I'm not specific all the time um because there are things they don't comprehend. For instance medicine versus drugs. Um you know when you're referring to sexual things they're they're they're things they don't really understand but then they want to know you know why did mommy do this and I saw her do that. I'm amazed at how well they're able to handle it. I'm really glad to hear she's doing well. The key thing is helping them understand that they are so loved and making those connections with them because everybody needs a mother and you're her mother now. I think they can understand that mommy didn't have the tools to be a mother but God or what however you want to refer to it is always going to make sure you have a mom that can take good care of you, right? I know you have I know you have chickens and goats and a house full of adults and such a lovely sanctuary now that you've won this battle how do you manage parenting a toddler how is that going?

SPEAKER_03 29:09

So this is a difficult question and I I thought you know I could just smile and say it's great, you know, whatever and it's not so managing not well I I I'll correct myself on that. I think I'm managing well but is it is it calm and peaceful? I'm putting off thinking maybe at some point I can have a break at a later

Caring for elderly mother

SPEAKER_03 29:29

date. So a week after our adoption my 85 year old mother fell and broke four ribs and ended up hospitalized and then in rehab and we had been looking for a nice independent living retirement home for her. But she developed pneumonia and took a turn for the worse and so we had to change that and start looking for assisted living. And I'm her durable power of attorney for healthcare and for finances. So that became my job to take care of in addition to also preparing her home to put it on the market, sell it, dealing with the real estate with the contractors, with the lawyers, with everything else while dealing with her health needs. That's just now settling down a little bit. She's in assisted living it took her a while to make the mental adjustment it's not what she wanted but she had some medical setbacks and here we are so it's been you know um raising a toddler and a couple of adult children and being a grandmother to three other kids that I see at least babysit at least once a week and having an 85 year old mom whose healthcare I'm still somewhat managing and I work full time and I have to work full time.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

So Mary Yes well Mary this is what I tell everyone and I'm so glad that you're sharing the messy side it's a mess because it is a mess and it's our beautiful mess. And I just ha went through the same thing. My dad committed suicide June the day that I was putting in an offer on a house we moved to be closer to family so that we could get help. That all happened the same day my mother called right away um because she and I are very close. I flew down there while my husband was taking care of the kids had to manage all the funeral arrangements for him help my mother sell her house move her into assistive living these are our stories and every single one there isn't one that's clean we need each other we need these stories because we need to hear that

Finding peace and community

SPEAKER_00 31:52

I need it I hate to say this I'm so sorry that's happened to you Mary but that helps me understand that my mess is just as messy as your mess. We're all just trying to find the joy and peace while grieving, while coping and a sense of community and knowing that there are almost three other million people like us out there in this situation and still trying to teach our grandkids a better way and still trying to just do the best we can. I think it's brave of us all and we need to pat ourselves on the back for doing you know someone I have to remember this because I'm so hard on myself I'm so much harder on myself than I was when I was young. And I guess it's because I just visualize this part of my life being very different than it is and I'm sorry to laugh no laugh you've got to laugh you have to laugh someone told me if the only thing that happens is that child knows that you are there for them and you have made that connection it really doesn't matter what else happens it really doesn't matter if we don't pull together the perfect life it doesn't matter that we make mistakes that we fall apart that we say the wrong things often that we you know it really doesn't matter because that child will always know that they're loved and so many kids out there don't have that much and if they don't have that you know I their lives are not very good. So so give yourself a pat on the back and just say that what I've done is enough and we get by the way we get by. And you know we're keeping our families together and really that's all that matters.

Managing a multi-generational family

SPEAKER_03 34:03

So the way I joke about it is you know they refer to us as the sandwich generation, right? Because you may have your dealing with your own kids or your adult children while you have your aging parents well we are the triple decker you know we we're not just you know there's two slices of bread we are the triple decker because you've got the kids you've got the parents the grandmother and the kids and the grandchildren and then just the way you take care of your spouse with each other.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

We are like the club sandwich generation. Yes we are the club sandwich generation right it's it's you know four generations of uh yeah so when you said you mentioned like executive functioning that's the thought that I had was um how did you put it execute um sanity or whatever sanity of course my adult one of my adult children just walked in looking for gas money here I'm so I'm so sorry because no no you know what I was doing an interview the other day and my grandson I thought I had the door locked while I was interviewing and my grandson came in and uh and uh I said this is this is my life interruption I love it I I think it's perfect sandwich that your son came in looking for gas money because she lost her debit card so now she can't she has no way of put gas in the car Lauren I love it Mary um I'm so glad that I hope others listening find the courage to share their stories because it really does help somebody else that needs to hear um the messiness is is definitely a part of it we are not uh we are not a commercial on TV right there's no sitcom here no sitcom yeah I heard recently there's gonna be a grandparent program like I'll never be able to recreate this people won't laugh it'll be it'll be all warm and fuzzy and yeah it'll be warm and fuzzy and we'll go I'm not listening to that show it is not like that so I'm asking all of the people that I'm interviewing three questions systematic question a taboo question and a policy question I want to ask you since you've seen the foster care system fail a 13 year old and nearly fail a baby if you were CEO of social services what's the first rule you would delete to make adoption easier for kinship families well I would say what would you add?

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Yeah so well there's one rule that they need to stick with it's there and they need to stick with it and that's when a child has spent the last 15 months out of the last 22 months in care. They're supposed to begin permanency they're always planning for permanency. They have concurrent goals like what happens if reunification doesn't work and what's the but at the 15 month point of the last 22 months of a child is in care, they're supposed to say okay we need to close the case this this isn't the parent isn't progressing we need to give this child permanency and they don't stick to that timeline. For infants it's really supposed to be more like 12 months because in the life of an infant and look you know we got our granddaughter at eight months she is now four years and whatever four years and 15 days. So you know if you're taking a an infant and you have them for a year they've already spent most of their life with you. So how do you now do reunification? They need to stick to those timelines. Those are those are federal and states don't stick to them they just blaze right on by them and I think it's a it's a hard process to terminate parental rights. And I think that they sit back and lounge on their laurels and say this child is with family. There's no urgency. But that child feels they feel that they unsettled they feel that there's a question mark over the their head they don't know where they're gonna be

Challenges in adoption process

SPEAKER_03 38:35

they feel the tension in the household they feel the fear that you have when you worry about a child going back to parents who can't keep that child safe. So you know yeah they need to they they need to stick to that and I think the other thing that I have learned is the handoff between caseworker to adoption caseworker and then after adoption the post-adoption caseworker they never give you the post-adoption caseworker's name they just tell you if you have problems at a later date, call us. You know we could call our attorney but that post-adoption caseworker might be someone your child might need intensive therapy with a specialist that's hard to find. They may have medical needs or educational things that arise from prenatal drug exposure. I mean all kinds of things that maybe you just don't know about and they can give you those supports and just fast track you to where you need to be but that handoff is so clunky between case we don't we never met our adoption caseworker. I don't think we ever spoke to her. She just is someone that moved paper and the only you know I mean all of all of that to reach guardianship or adoption you should know going forward because the case is closing and the caseworker is disappearing, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:02

You need to know who do I reach out to so yeah I think that's a very good point. And I mean it's a really rough system and probably a lot of that has to do with the fact that people really don't want to recognize or admit the fact that it's a problem. There's a mental health problem in this country that people don't want to deal with or or throw money at.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

You know they sure throw a lot of money at it when it when they do a poor job because now it's generational.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Yes and that's the whole purpose of this book that I'm writing is to talk about really um the fact that we're passing this these mental health issues down from one family to another and if we were to have a system for dealing with this more effectively and efficiently children would get better care. So the taboo question I have for you this is a tough one do you think it's okay for a grandmother to feel relief that the biological mother isn't changing their lifestyle because it makes the adoption more secure so for me I I don't have concerns about the adoption not being secure.

SPEAKER_03 41:34

I mean maybe it's the state I I'm in it's very difficult to reach this point. And once you do termination of parental rights and voluntarily or involuntary and you go through adoption, it's done. They're not going to overturn that it would have to be that's not true if it's guardianship guardianship is a different matter that they they can overturn and will if a parent changes their life and comes back and is in recovery and all those things.

Foster parenting challenges and fears

SPEAKER_03 42:02

So I don't have um at this point I'm not worried about the adoption but during the case I have to admit I did feel I felt at the same time I was sad that my foster daughter wasn't pulling her life together because I thought for sure when she lost her daughter that would be the thing that would be the thing that caused her to to really stop and say I've got to change but it it wasn't right but there were times where I felt well maybe it's for the best because if she does everything she's supposed to do and you know pulls herself together it isn't going to be permanent and I was so fearful that she would get her daughter back and then it would just be she would be one boyfriend friend away from being in another abusive situation or she would start abusing drugs again or lose a job and start prostituting or any of all the horrible things that could happen. But now that the adoption is finalized I guess I don't really I don't feel that way would love to see her get her life together. I still care about her I'm sad for her. I worry about her and I because she is a product of the foster system and a failed adoption um her adoptive parents terminated their parental rights. I think she knows too well what it is to disrupt a child. And I don't believe as long as she is of sound mind that she would even attempt to do anything because she would not want that for her daughter to lose her family and to be moved. Um so I don't worry about that quite honestly I wish she could pull herself together because then she could be a part of her daughter's life.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

Yes I agree. But I think perhaps there could be better better checkpoints in place to secure that a child doesn't go back to their parents before before the system is tested.

Declining guardianship offer

SPEAKER_03 44:15

So that's why we were not going to accept guardianship. And they seem to want to push that on us because they said, well you have this relationship with the mom, why wouldn't you want guardianship? And maybe at a later date she she would be able to parent and I said not on your life because I understand what you're trying to do. You don't, you're tired of working this case and you want me to work it for you. Because the moment you take guardianship on and DCFS disappears, if that parent comes forward and challenges you in court, it's just you and them. It becomes your legal battle, your legal expenses and how do you legally, what power do you have to force that parent to submit to a background check to to be able to inspect their home to be able to s make them submit to drug screens? You don't have any legal ability to do that. You can't enforce that. Especially if you're in the same state. Sure. Well yeah I mean you have no right you have no power you have no power. Right, right. Yeah. So so it's you and them in court and to me those odds didn't feel good. I saw too much BS in court and I, you know, with mom pulling herself together for the you know for 20 30 minutes just knowing that she was going to go right back to to abusing the moment she got out of so um yeah if if I was in a guardianship situation that would be different but we pushed back really hard on that.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

The policy question I have is what specific support do biological children and foster kinship homes need that the system is currently ignoring?

SPEAKER_03 46:08

So you know that is such a um deep loaded question because when you have biological children, your biological children they give up a lot. They give up their space they give up their time with their parents they give up the calm and the stability of the home they give up in some cases their safety. They are victims of physical emotional and sexual abuse often at the hands of the foster children that enter your home. That may sound harsh but it's the reality these are kids that have been exposed to horrible things. Sometimes they're just acting out what's been done to them because they're trying to process it.

unknown 46:54

Right.

SPEAKER_03 46:54

And I don't want to make these, you know, I'm not trying to scare people but this is the reality of what you're bringing into your home when when you foster and it it's amazing you go through all this training and you're dealing with caseworkers and people that supposedly have all this training and they understand the impacts of all of this on the foster child, but they don't give even a minute's thought to what this does to other children, right? And these children, these biological children, they don't have attachment issues. They haven't been displaced. They're part of a loving home and they are strongly attached to their parents. And so they are capable of forming attachments to these foster kids. They take them into their heart they their home they involve them in their circle of friends they become very attached. So

Challenges of Foster Care System

SPEAKER_03 47:50

when you have to disrupt a placement remove a child or a child gets reunified or all of that that is it's a huge loss. And as foster parents you don't have any right to maintain contact the children don't have rights to any contact once a child is gone from your home and there are no supports at all one for those children those biological children that are now traumatized, depressed sometimes blame themselves for the failure of the placement DCFS, they wash their hands they are done with the foster family your failures in their mind when they have to disrupt um and off they go and they don't care about the damage they leave behind.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

So you think better support for the children of the foster parents is needed to be put in place it's tough because you want the support but or what would you say you want the support but you also don't want them in your business.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

What kind of supports would they give? Would they criticize you? You know you have a child that's depressed or acting out or whatever so are you kidding What about therapy?

SPEAKER_00 49:06

Therapy for the children in the home?

SPEAKER_03 49:09

Would you ask for that I think I would ask for because I don't I because I'm so distrusting of DCFS that I wouldn't want them steering that therapy or having access to the conversations and that therapy. I I don't trust them. So how would you word it? How would I word it? I would say that I think that in a perfect world that you do you offer training and access to support groups for these children and that that that is closed DCFS. So yes DCFS could provide the training but you know access to support groups and that kind of thing foster parents have their own support groups where they get to talk and DCFS isn't part of it because they're going to share and it and it's going to be ugly things that they share, right? And they don't want DCFS always hearing what they have to say. Well the same needs to be true of these biological kids. They need an opportunity to talk and not have someone

Support for new foster parents

SPEAKER_03 50:16

I think that's perfectly reasonable.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

And I think it's a great idea. Yeah. I mean it makes sense I'm I'm of course I haven't been a foster parent so I don't know you know now I I haven't gone through that experience. I do know that I think there's a whole lot more support that we should be given we should have a month's leave paid with therapy going into this and so that there's a transition and I think that it it probably is a similar thing that needs to be done in foster situations as well. But as you said it shouldn't be government regulated. So I think that's perfectly reasonable and a very good point to make well Mary I'm so glad you shared this with us.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

I know that a lot of other grandparents are going to want to hear and it it gives us comfort to know that there are people out there that are winning their fights you know I had one final thought that I missed and that was that yeah you put off a lot of things when you have a child that's not yours and you know um you're you're not the legal parent you put off little things like we talked about piercing my granddaughter's ears and I said oh no her mom's not going to go for that because it's something her mom is going to want to do and I understand that. And then there were a lot of things like about our our faith we're Catholic and things we know we didn't read Bible stuff stories. We didn't do that because mom is not practicing in any faith. And as foster parents you learn you need to respect this child's culture. Don't force yours onto them. So there was a lot that we put off and then finally just this last Sunday we were able to get our daughter we were able to get her baptized and and our tradition is you baptize when they're infants when they're small the sooner the better. And we had a baptismal gown that's been in the family 86 years. And so my mom and her siblings were baptized in it all of me and my siblings um all of my children were baptized in it. So what we did in the case of my granddaughter who's now four is we folded it up and we put it in a little purse and we strapped it over her and we explained to the priest I know it's strange that she's going to get baptized wearing a purse but this is why this this is the only way she is going to be able to wear this. I'm sure he understood he kind of laughed he said I've not heard that one before but just things like that that you put on hold because it doesn't feel right to make that decision and to leave the parent out of it out of the experience. So you put it off and so that has been I think one of the biggest parts of the healing process is now getting to like fully parent the way you would parent the rest of the other children thanks I love that story.

SPEAKER_00 53:23

Thank you Mary Have a wonderful evening with your family. Thank you you too

Embracing the role of advocate

SPEAKER_00 53:31

I want you to step into the reflection room with me. Mary talked about the life book the story we tell our grandkids about where they came from ask yourself today am I being delicate enough with their past while being firm enough about their future safety? Are you squinting at the red tape or are you ready to use your voice in that breakout room like Mary did? Remember, you aren't an inconvenience to the system you are the solution the system is trying to shirk its work onto so stand your ground. Join us next week as we welcome Janine Mushawar. We're moving from the legal battle to the teenage flash fires. Janine is a Stanford grad parenting coach who helps us move from slam doors to strategic partnership. If you're tired of walking on eggshells with your teen you won't want to miss this one. We are 2.7 million strong still nurturing and still here whether you're folding an 86 year old baptismal gown into a toddler's purse or fighting for a safety assessment in a Chicago park you are the keeper of the future your heart is the most important asset on the balance sheet. So keep nurturing keep leading and I will see you in the next boardroom