How to Handle Behavioral Problems in Kinship Care | The 5 C’s Framework

What do you do when the "because I said so" of your past meets the trauma triggers of your present? Well, today we aren't just winging it. Dr. Lindsay Emerson joins us to explain why parenting is a learned skill, not a personality trait, and how to apply a professional blueprint to a situation that feels like a daily fire. This technique works for me and my family because it combines a traditional system of authoritative parenting with heartfelt love to create a really amazing parenting style. Welcome to Grandparents Raising

Nurturing Through Adversity. In this podcast, we will delve deep into the challenges and triumphs of grandparents raising grandchildren as we navigate the complexities of legal, financial, and emotional support, I invite you to join us on a journey of exploring thoughts, feelings, and beliefs surrounding this growing segment of our society. Drawing from real stories and expert advice, we will explore the nuances of child rearing for children who have experienced trauma and offer valuable resources to guide you through the intricate journey of kinship care. We'll discuss how we can change the course of history by rewriting our grandchildren's future, all within a supportive community that understands the unique joys and struggles. This podcast was made especially for you. Welcome to a community where your voice is heard, your experiences are valued, and your journey is honored. I sat at my kitchen table this morning and realized something very humbling. I am a lot less forgiving of myself as a grandmother than I was as a young mom. When I fail to keep my cool, I beat myself up like I'm a CEO failing a major audit. But talking to Dr. Lindsay reminded me that our nervous systems have a tornado funnel. Once we hit the top, we lose control. The goal isn't to be perfect, it's to catch ourselves at the bottom of the spiral. Today I'm learning that good enough parenting is actually a scientific standard and that repair is more powerful than perfection. Welcome, Lindsay. It's so nice to have you on the show. Thanks so much, Laura. I'm really happy to be here with your community. Lindsay, in your work, you advocate for moving from random parenting tactics to a cohesive system that you've developed. But for those of us grandparents raising grandchildren, our facts sometimes feel like fires that we're trying to put out. We deal— we're dealing with trauma triggers and neurodiversity and really just the sheer exhaustion of starting over raising traumatized children in our 50s, 60s, and even 70s. So help us know, how we even begin to apply a professional system like your blueprint to a situation that feels honestly most of the time governed by emotion and emergency. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I hear where you're coming from. Your audience is managing a lot and doing such important work. So I think it starts, Laura, with just showing yourself grace. And realizing you are already stepping in in the most meaningful way by showing these kids that you care enough about them to radically change your life and take responsibility for them. And honestly, that, if that's where it stops, if that's where your growth as a grandparent stops, that's enough. That's enough to show these kids that you care so much about them that you will form this very strong, secure attachment bond with them, you will be that person that their parent was designed to be, and you will step in and you will fill those shoes. And that is going to set them up for a lifetime of success. And so if that's, if that's all that you do, that is enough. So every day, wake up and just show yourself grace. Yeah. And say, forming this secure attachment bond with this child, showing them the warmth and responsiveness and the attention that they so need, that's really just biologically necessary for us as developing beings, and stepping in being that person for them when their parent is not able to for whatever reason, that is the most important thing you can do. After that, if you have energy left in the tank, which many days you won't, the first step would be just becoming aware of, well, what's new in parenting? Because Obviously things have changed since the first round of kids, right? And the first time you went through this experience of being a parent and now a grandparent and things change. And one of my most important missions in my work is to help parents and grandparents to realize that parenting is a learned skill. It's not just a set of personality traits, something you are born with. It's really a set of skills that can be learned and it's a a process of constantly evolving and trying out different strategies and seeing what works in your unique parent-child or grandparent-child dynamic. And so the, that first step then is learning, well, what's, what's new in parenting today? And that's when I like to talk about what's called authoritative parenting, which your audience may already be familiar with. But if you look at decades of psychology research, we now know that there are 4 primary parenting styles and 3 of them do not lead to great outcomes, and they're parenting styles that often we're very familiar with because we were raised in this way. So the first is going to be an authoritarian parenting style. That's your strict, because I said so, conformity, obedience style. And a lot of us were raised that way. I'm not sure that's resonating with you, Laura. Yes. Yep. Yes, it is. So that's our first style, authoritarian. The second style is at the opposite end of the spectrum. This is your permissive parent. This is the whatever goes. You wanna stay up later? Sure. No boundaries around what we eat or what time we go to bed or how much screens we use. And just, I don't wanna ruffle feathers. I wanna maintain just the relationship. And so it's the opposite there. That's the permissive style. And then the third is one that is much less common, but it's more of a neglectful, uninterested style where the parent really just wants to live their own life and the child is there. So these three styles lead to kids who have more problems academically, socially, in terms of mental health, future career outcomes. So we now know, and not every kid, you know, you can be raised in an authoritarian household and turn out just fine. But when you look at the norms and the general data in lots of very valid psychology research, these three styles don't turn out great. So What do you do then? There's one style that does turn out great. So there's something called the authoritative parenting style. And that term, I just do not like, Laura, because it's so similar to authoritarian. So what I do in my parent coaching practice is I just take that term authoritative parenting and I have renamed it amazing parenting. So much easier for me to keep it straight. So we've got strict authoritarian and we've got amazing parenting. Willing to go with that. Okay, great. So amazing parenting is not perfect parenting. Amazing parenting is a balance of warmth and structure. So you're showing your child that unconditional love, unconditional positive regard, you're supporting them in every way they need, but you're balancing that with boundaries, using consequences when needed, and making sure that you're guiding their behavior on the right path. And so everything in life and everything in parenting is about finding this perfect balance between warmth and structure. So you're not overly permissive with no boundaries, and you're not overly strict in that authoritarian way. It's finding that balance. And what we find repeatedly across different cultures, across different socioeconomic levels, every factor you can think of, Laura, when you look at this data, you find that kids who are raised in an authoritarian— or sorry, see, that's why I changed the word because it's so, so similar. Authoritative. We'll just say amazing. So much easier to keep it straight. Yes. Kids who are raised in an amazing household, and even if it's just one parent, okay, as long as one parent in the household uses this authoritative, amazing style with their children, these kids go on to be better connected with their parents. They're less defiant. They have better behavior overall. They have better grades. They have better social skills. They are happier. They have better mental health. So many things that we want for our kids can all boil down to, well, what's this overarching parenting style in your home? And this is not something that comes naturally to everybody. A lot of people need to be retrained to think in this way of balancing warmth with structure because it's so different than what we grew up with. If we grew up with that, because I said so, Or we grow up with whatever goes. It's hard to find that balance. We often tend to swing in the opposite direction. You know, if we were raised by a very authoritarian parent, we tend to then be too permissive in our parenting. I don't want to set the boundaries and ruffle feathers. I want to be friends with you. And so we sometimes need support in learning the strategies that will help you to live in that middle ground. So if you get past— I'm sold already. Oh, thanks. My father was of the authoritarian style. Very common in your age group for the father to have been authoritarian. And my mother was more like the amazing mother, lots of love. And yet she expected us to behave ourselves around adults and to be polite and respectful. And that's the way that I speak with my grandchildren. So I'm, I'm all in on amazing. That's perfect. Yeah. Reasonable boundaries. I mean, boundaries exist. They're necessary part of life, but keeping them reasonable and educating kids on why we need these boundaries, not just saying you need to sit up straight, instead telling them, well, why is it important to sit up straight? Right. Right. I find that works especially well with these children who had no boundaries at all. I'm learning how to explain how I feel in response to something that they do that is irritating or shocking to me instead of getting angry, trying not to get angry, but to say, that surprises me. I don't think that's a very kind response and that hurts my feelings. And they totally understand anything about feelings. What I've seen is that they respond to anger, they take it as rejection, and the response I get is defiance. I love that insight. That is absolutely going to be the case for a lot of kids, but especially for the group you're talking about that has trauma, right? And so for any child, if you go right into anger and yelling and threats, you're activating their nervous system and they're getting into fight or flight mode, and it takes away their ability to think at at all logically. They're just thinking emotionally, reactively. But if you can come from a calming place, if you can approach it, as you said, with just calm explanation, well, that makes me feel this way. You know, let's talk about what, what we, how we got there and what we could have done differently. Then you can keep them from getting into that heightened state of arousal. You can help train their body to stay calm, even when they're discussing potentially upsetting things. And that is an amazing skill for them to carry throughout their life. To be able to control their own nervous system. It's a skill we could all benefit from, but a lot of us have been— Yeah, absolutely. Mastering. I mean, it's teaching me a lot. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's a continuous process. You know, we all learn throughout life. Every time that we fail to keep our cool, we shouldn't beat ourselves up. We should take it as another data point. And you're learning, this is a trigger for me. Okay. So now I need to pay attention to those triggers and okay, I know that And when I'm tired, I'm edgier, or when I'm hungry, I'm edgier, or when somebody gets in my face, I'm edgier. So whatever your list of triggers is, you keep that mental note, and then you're able to identify earlier on in that sort of process. I call it the anger spiral. So if you start, think of a tornado, the funnel of a tornado, right? So you're every day, you're just down here, a little emotion, smiling a little bit, but as you get angry, so when you're child says something terribly offensive, or when they break one of your favorite vases or whatever happens, and your grandchild gets, uh, does something that makes you angry, you start spiraling, right? And once your anger gets to here, the top of the funnel, you can't control it. You're going to start yelling at them. You're going to say something you regret. And then it just becomes this guilt reaction, right? And nobody learns anything from it. But the more that you take the time to mentally note, okay, that's what happened. That's my trigger. Then you can start You start to catch yourself down here, and that's when you can really step in and say, okay, I see that something is happening here. That's making me feel tense. I'm starting to get angry. I'm going to catch it here. I'm going to use my coping skills and I'm going to take a break if I need. There are so many different ways you can respond depending on what the situation is, but I'm going to choose to take control of my emotions here so that I don't react with anger. And instead I respond calmly. And that skill is what we teach our kids through countless interactions over decades. And by the time they're adults, then they get it and they're able to stay calm and have these tough emotions without losing their cool. You know, it's interesting. I was talking about this a little bit earlier with someone, and when I was a young mother, I was all into being easy on myself and experimenting with different methods. But for some reason, as a grandmother, I'm not that way. And I don't know if it's because of my age and we're more set in our ways at this point, that change is a little bit more challenging, but I find that practicing responding differently to, to the way these children behave is more work for me. Than it was when I was young. That's interesting. And I think that— I'm less forgiving too of myself. Okay. Well, I think a lot of caregivers can relate to that concept of it being more work to respond the way that you think you should react to them, right? Because it is, when you're— especially when you're first learning and you're really consciously thinking, okay, how was I supposed to respond? What should I do differently? But even going on, it takes more work to harness your own self-composure, think through what is the right way to respond here, what's going to get us to the best outcome, and actually do it. It takes so much more work than just saying, "Because I said so," right? So it is more work, but the thing that really motivates parents and grandparents to change is to realize when you take that extra beat and you put that extra effort in, your life actually gets easier because if you respond in a productive way, in an effective way, then the kids respond by showing you better behavior. And when you do it consistently, when you really start to integrate strategy— strategies into your daily routine in your home, the kids' behavior gets better and better. And then every day is just easier. So if you put in the effort at first, you really pay off dividends. I mean, I work with parents who are deciding to use this amazing parenting framework when their kids are very young. And I'll tell you, Laura, by 10, it's like I'm barely parenting these kids, right? They've got it all figured out by then, but you gotta put in the work in those early years. In contrast, I work with other parents who've never heard about any of this approach to parenting, and they come to me with their almost teenagers and this is out of control. And that's when you really gotta work hard there to salvage the next 5 years, right? And so the earlier you start, the better. It's never too late, but the effort you put in now and each day, if you can consistently do that, it just makes life easier for you. And then the kids see these great outcomes that the research clearly shows happen when you start using these amazing parenting strategies. And I know that with this system, we're moving away from a lot of trendy behavior and having a system allows us probably more easily to refer back to, um, a framework that we can talk about with the kids. Yeah. And part of it's talking about it with the kids. And then in my mind, one of the most valuable things about having this system or what I use is the 5 C's parenting framework. And in my mind, the system makes it easier for you to organize all of your knowledge about parenting and what makes an amazing parent. And then to pull upon, call upon each of those strategies in the daily stressful moments. Because if you don't have a system, if you're just learning kind of random tips and, oh, I remember this script they told me to use in this one situation, and then you get into real life parenting and there's a real life challenge there, it's hard to remember, oh, what am I supposed to do? Oh my gosh, I remember I saw this reel about what you're supposed to do when your child has a tantrum, or I watched this YouTube video about what should I do when they talk back? And then in the moment, it's so hard to remember because not every tantrum's the same and not every talking back moment is the same. And so if you have a system, then what I use is the 5 C's parenting framework, then you can think through in that moment, okay, let me take a deep breath. I'm gonna take a beat. It's not usually not a crisis. You know, we feel like we have to respond right away, but usually we have a second to think, you know, get our parasympathetic nervous system on board so that we can respond rather than react. And the 5 C's for me allow me to think through, okay, these are the 5 key areas in my parenting where I know if I put effort, I will see meaningful change. So communication, how am I talking to my child right now? Am I using effective communication? Is there something I should be changing to make this interaction go more smoothly? That's communication. Consistency. Okay, is this about the moment or is this about something that maybe we haven't been quite on the ball with in terms of consistency? Are they tired? Have we been getting to bed late? Are they hungry? Did we not have enough snack today? You know, there are different things you can do in consistency. Really featured mainly primarily around sleep and eating. Um, and then beyond that, how I'm interacting with them so that they know every day that I'm showing up for them as that secure attachment figure. That's consistency. Then we've got choices and checkpoints. Kids need autonomy so they don't feel stifled. Now you have to have the boundaries. You have to have times where you're setting rules that they have to stick to. But beyond that, they need to have autonomy in a lot of other stuff. You know, do you wanna wear the blue shirt or the red shirt? Do you want peas or carrots tonight? Anything that doesn't really matter, let it be a choice so that they can feel then like they have independence. They have a say in things. Their voice matters. Yeah. Along with those choices comes understanding the developmental checkpoints. You know, what age are they at? What is their brain actually capable of right now? Because a 3-year-old doesn't think the same as a 7-year-old or an 11-year-old or an 18-year-old. And so that all falls into here and you say to yourself, okay, am I giving them enough choices? What's going on at their specific level? Okay. I'm expecting too much of them. They can't think that logically. Consequences, not necessary every day, but there are times when consequences are definitely needed to help guide behavior in the right direction. And importantly, check yourself. Let's just think through what mindset am I in right now? Am I able to bring my A-game here or do I need to take a little break or do I need to do some problem solving? Cause something's not working quite right. There's a lot that falls into this check yourself category. But if you're in these stressful moments and you're trying to remember some specific tip, it's hard to come by. But if you have this framework and you say, oh yes, I remember, you know, in Dr. Lindsay's Better Behavior Blueprint course, we talked about this acknowledge and respond strategy. Okay, to get them to listen, I'm gonna focus on communication. Let's use this strategy now. So it's just, it's a recall tool. It's a memory aid to have this system. So it lets you learn it all in this organized way and then actually recall it in the situations where it matters and adapt it to that exact situation and not kind of feel stuck because it's not exactly what you learned. I can just see, I just have this vision of me having it written on all 5 fingers and I'm glad there aren't 11. I love that. Oh, that's great. I should, oh, I'm visualizing like a great learning aid here where I actually write it out and take a picture. Yeah. That's perfect. It would fit long way on my each finger. Yeah. Do you have a chart for this? Yeah. I mean, just listing the 5 Cs. Absolutely. I mean, it's in the introductory module of the online course that I have, but I can absolutely provide some resources for your listeners as well. I think that would be great. Yeah. While we're talking about this, why don't you share where they can find your 5 Cs framework information and your website? Sure. So my website and all my social media are consistent. It's drlindseyemerson.com or @DrLindseyEmerson on all my socials. And on my website, I have a tab at the top that tells you about my amazing parents club membership where parents can get weekly support actually from me. I show up and I answer questions in the Q&A. That's great. Yeah. And they get introduced to the 5 C's and so it's It's like knowing, it's like watching a reel and saying, oh, well, what, how would I tell that to my child? You can actually ask that in the community. So that's a great resource. And then for parents who are ready for the full 5 C's framework and really wanna understand all the strategies and learn how to integrate them so that you can do like what I just did, you know, in the moment, thinking through the 5 C's, I have a full online course called the Better Behavior Blueprint, which I think is just a tremendous resource for guiding children and promoting better behavior. In this way that's really grounded on connection and developing a strong relationship that then guides them gently, but with enough of those boundaries so that they're seeing those great outcomes. That's fabulous. And we'll put all those links in the show notes. Thank you. That'd be great. You know, help us understand how to communicate with our grandchildren when we're off. Let's just say we're tired or exhausted. Is it permissible to say, "I'm just not all here today and I'm not going to respond to that really well. Could you ask me that question tomorrow morning?" 100%. Yes. There's a lot of research that supports that as well. So we are never gonna be on all the time. It's just, we're human. It's not possible. And kids are very perceptive and they pick up on that incongruence between the way you normally are and the way you are on another day. If you wanna kind of go to an extreme, there were studies in kind of classic studies in psychology where you look at infants interacting with their primary caregiver and they're having a lovely interaction playing with toys. And then the experimenter instructs them to make a still face, just like a mask, no emotion. And the infants instantly feel unsettled and they start getting upset. They start looking around, what's wrong? They're prompting their parent to react differently. So So kids are very aware of a change in your emotions. So there's no need to hide that. There's no need to fake it till you make it. Okay. So you show up in the best way you can, but it's perfect to be honest with them and say, hey, I'm having a rough day today. And you're modeling for them that it's okay to have rough days and it's normal to have emotion swings, but that you can still be calm and respectful and kind. You may not be 100%, but you can still show up in a good way for other people, but it's okay and good for you to show yourself grace. And so you're modeling a lot of good things for your kids. And you're also just taking away that uncertainty of what's going on. Why are they acting like that? By just naming it, labeling it and say, hey, I'm really tired today. So I just wanna forewarn you, I may be a little edgier cuz I know when I get tired, I get a little edgy. And another thing that psychology research shows us is this concept of good enough parenting. So you do not have to be on all the time to raise great kids. I mean, really, we're talking closer to 50% of the time that you really show up and you are fully responsive and saying the right thing and doing your best. And that, just that statistic, I think takes a lot of the stress off. And so don't, don't feel like it has to be perfect all the time. There's actually a lot of benefit to you coming back later repairing a relationship that maybe had a little bit of a down. You know, yesterday I was tired and I really wasn't at my best. And so you come back the next day and you say, hey buddy, I got a much better night's sleep today. So I'm really ready to roll today. And I apologize, I wasn't on my best yesterday, but I really wanna be here for you today. What do you wanna do today? And so that process of repair is incredibly valuable for relationships. And it shows your child that nobody has to be perfect all the time, that little moments of riff are normal in relationships, but it doesn't change the love and the lasting connection. It can even make it stronger. Yes, I've found that to be true, definitely, because we've been through a lot as a family since this all started 4 years ago, and there were moments where I was just a mess. And I remember my husband saying, just go to your room and shut the door and I'll handle things for a while, and then coming coming out the next day and saying, guys, I'm really sorry, I just didn't know how to handle this. And their children are so forgiving when you approach things with them that way. I definitely have found that. I have a question. When, let's say, I'm really excited— this is sort of how I do things— I get really excited about things and I want to share them with the kids. So if I said, hey, I learned something really cool today, I learned something called the 5 C's, and it's going to help me with parenting because I'm learning about parenting again. I'm sort of going to school just like you are and tell them about it because they're all— mine are old enough to understand that. They're 6 and 10. And then we can talk about it. And is it something to— are they too young to understand this concept? No, absolutely not. I would just keep the description brief. So, you know, that age group, they're gonna bore pretty quickly and you can even approach it as kind of, hey, I realize this is kind of like school stuff, so I don't wanna dwell on it forever, but I just wanna tell you, 'cause I'm so excited about it. And then you're modeling a growth mindset, which is another wonderful skill for them to develop of this concept of lifelong learning and embracing challenges and embracing it. And we can make it a game almost, right? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. You're like, oh, you got 4 out of 5 Cs. 5 Cs and you get a cookie. Oh, it's perfect. Yeah, because really I focus on the 5 Cs in terms of how parents can interact with their kids, but really you could apply this to any interaction. You could say this is what makes the world a better place, right? If people just in general started thinking through their interactions with everybody and thinking through, well, am I communicating the right way with them? Am I making sure that everything's consistent so that I'm coming and being my best self ahead of time? And oh, am I getting enough autonomy in that way? You're using these choices, you know, what rules, firm rules, and what are soft rules? And do we need consequences here? You know, what am I gonna learn from this? There are natural consequences, logical consequences, all different ways that you can learn from things. And then sometimes I just need to check myself and make sure that I'm not actually accidentally making the situation worse here. Yes. I love it. Yeah. So I would totally, I think you could print it out. You could put it on the fridge and, you know, they'll probably say, okay, okay. But then they'll end up peeking at it. Well, I find that if anything is a game or involves tickling with my kids, they absorb it so much better. That's great. Well, that's wonderful. I'm so excited to join your group and learn more about The whole program, I really like that it's a system that our generation can understand and grasp and put on a chart. And it makes sense. It's a very loving approach, but it also involves reasoning and practical methods that I think our generation can relate to. Yeah. It's a happy medium too if we have partners that have been raised with a more strict child-rearing method and that's their go-to means of doing things because I'm always trying to bring in a little bit more tenderness in the way our family handles things. So it checks all my boxes. Yes. And if you have a partner who tends to be a little more authoritarian because that's what they learned growing up, a great way to introduce this concept to them is to say, we're not switching to the other end of the extreme. We don't wanna do that. We just wanna bring it a little more towards the center and make sure that we're having connection before correction. Because when you have that connection element, you're going to just innately get much more cooperation and you're gonna need less behavior modification as you go on. The kids learn these strategies, you use them consistently, And they just overall have better behavior. So more of your day is spent enjoying time together and less is spent focusing on the negative stuff. I'm, I'm so excited to hear about this and we'll post a lot more information about the program and links and posters and stuff like that in the show notes for sure. Well, I'm going to ask you the questions that I ask all of my interviewees. Okay. The first one I have is a systematic question. Our current legal and social systems often treat kinship care as sort of a temporary situation. And we're dealing with such complex behavioral needs that require long-term psychological support. The fact is that I think the statistics are that Many of us grandparents get our grandchildren and we think it's going to be a situation that's going to be short-term. And the fact is that 45 to 60% of those cases become long-term, lifelong situation. How do you think that this lack of systematic onboarding for grandparents force us to work twice as hard to build a stable, regulated home? That's a really interesting question, Laura. So the situation of becoming the caregiver for your grandkids, I'm sure there are— I've never been in your situation, but I would imagine there are some, typically some red flags, you know, you know, something's going on, something may need to change at some point. But ultimately it probably comes fairly abruptly where you say, oh my gosh, all of a sudden I'm responsible for these. It's overnight. In our situation, it was overnight. Yeah. Can you imagine? Whether it's a death or someone's gone to jail. Yeah. Or Child Protective Services has removed the children from the family. You get a call in the middle of the night. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you have 3 children the next day. Yeah. And that is a wild situation to be in with a lot of different emotions. You know, I'm sure part of you is proud that you get to have this role. Part of you is crushed to lose your independence. Part of you is stressed by just the noise and the responsibility and so many different emotions. So, and I can't even imagine the first time you're a parent, if you were just handed a child and said, this is yours now. You know, we get 9 and a half months of pregnancy to adjust to this concept. And even then it's a shocker how much responsibility it is actually to be every second of the day responsible for this child who doesn't even talk yet. Um, and so, so I hear what you're saying. It is a dramatic shift and there really should be a process of how supporting grandparents new, new to this, again, being a parent role with education, with resources, with financial means, all the things that you need instantly. A part of it from, you know, from my perspective as a parenting educator would be to spread the word that that parenting is a learned skill so that when you're thrust into this parenting role again, I mean, I think every parent, but especially we're talking about these grandparents dealing with kids who have been through trauma instantly getting incorporated in this household surprisingly, especially for those parents in your group that you speak to, that it would be so important to offer free parenting support and just say, hey, here's this course. You know, I know you don't have a lot of time right now, As time permits, chip away at it. And I bet you'll find that a lot of this stuff helps and makes your new chaotic life a lot calmer. As you were talking, I thought about the fact that I have a daughter who just was promoted to a position in ICU. It's a life and death situation, which I think these situations, they're not much different. And in her job, they give her an assistant for 3 months. To support her and teach her about what that traumatic situation is going to be like. It seems that the system should provide something like that for us because not only are we 50 to 70 years old going into a life and death trauma situation, but we have no clue of what we're getting into. And we didn't even ask for this job, but we are honored to take it on. And so we want to do our job well, and we want to serve these children well. And we want to know when we go to our grave, at least we can say we did a job well done or somewhat well done. You know, I think you're right. I do think there should be a parenting system program for traumatized children that grandparents are involved? Yeah, 100%. So it would be all of the things that I teach every parent plus a trauma component that would help you to understand the unique needs of kids who have been through a traumatic experience and helping you to understand how long it will take to overcome that. But Laura, just one more thing on this topic is the importance of being able to connect these kids with you as grandparents, as opposed to going into the foster system, which, you know, that we could go into all sorts of things about it, but just the main concept being that you are providing as much continuity and consistency as you can. So you're maintaining as much of a family tie as you can. So you're minimizing the transition for the kids. And that is a huge aspect of helping them to overcome this really challenging phase of life. I agree. I agree. Well, my taboo question I have for you is, why do you think it's so taboo to admit that we need a system, a blueprint to manage our kids' behavior? And is there some kind of a fear, do you think personally, in using a system because maybe it's less loving or it replaces grandma's house, you know, with, uh, with a boardroom? That's a great question. I think that it has to do with changing times. So looking back historically, as a young girl, I would've been raised in a home with a mother and a grandmother, and I'd probably have aunties all living in my community, and I would have observed amazing parenting everywhere.. And it would have been something I was actively trained on, right? I wouldn't have— we're talking ages ago, right? I wouldn't have been trained to be a psychologist. I'd be trained to be a mom. And so your whole identity as a woman is wrapped up in being a mom, even though now, fast forward, even though now we understand that you can have it all to some degree. You can't have everything to the maximum at every time, but you can have phases of life where you can be focused on different things, but you can be a professional, you can be a mom, you can have hobbies, you can you have interests, you can have all of these things and you can still be a good mom. But I think we haven't had enough time to transition between those two eras, right? And so people today, parents today, still feel this concept of like, I'm supposed to be an amazing mom, just naturally, it should come intuitively. If it seems like I'm not doing a good job, then it must be me, right? Sometimes I don't know what to do, it must be me. And really, I think it's just because we weren't raised the way that our grandmothers were to have that confidence to already feel like you knew the skills, to already have a ton of experience raising cousins and nieces and nephews and siblings. We just live in a different time. And so we need to adapt our training. Like you take an online course and then an in-person course to become a driver. Right? My 16-year-old had to do both of those before he got his license, but I can just walk out of the hospital with a baby and I'm expected to be a perfect parent? It's just, it just doesn't make sense. I agree. And I was, I was talking again with someone else that I interviewed the other day and I was saying my image of a grandmother was this woman who was in the kitchen with an apron on, who gave you candy as a reward, who let you have breakfast for dinner and dinner for breakfast and was always kind, never lost her patience. You know, that's how we were raised. And we were raised that there was this retirement picture and there was this loving grandmother that ran around and just loved on you and gave you everything you wanted. But that's not, that's, that's not who we are and we can't be that. To these kids or they'll, they'll run us over and they won't become responsible citizens. That's for sure. So I agree. It's, it's a different picture. It's a different picture than— Yeah, you need to fill both shoes. You need to be the parent and the grandparent. You can't just be the grandparent. Yeah. Yeah. And, and fortunately, I think that the system you're describing gives us both. An opportunity to be both. Yeah, if we can just get past that taboo, like you're saying, of I should know how to parent, and just remember, why should I know how to parent? I, I wasn't raised in a family of 10. I'm not the oldest who cares. I haven't done this before. You know, if we just get rid of— if we realize times have changed and I don't have this experience, then, then we know, okay, I need to seek that out. I need to get some training. And that makes me a better parent for realizing that and wanting to do that and not just wing it. Yeah. Thank you. The policy question I want to ask you is, if you were COO of the country, what national policy would you implement to ensure that the 2.7 million grandparents out there that are taking care of their grandchildren had better access to behavioral frameworks like your Better Behavior Blueprint? The moment a child's child enters their care. Oh, that's so interesting because normally if I were speaking to just parents, I would 100% say paid maternity and paternity leave for the first year to form that secure attachment bond. But with your grandparents, it's not always in that first year. So you're getting kids later in life. But still forming, going back to our very first topic in this conversation, Laura, the most important thing is forming that secure attachment and making sure that they know that you will consistently be there for them, responsive to them in a warm way. Honestly, I don't know if anyone has ever proposed this before, but I would call it grandparent leave. When you first become a grandparent, You get minimum 3 months to just focus on those kids, paid leave, so that you can focus on that relationship and form that security, 'cause that's what they need. They just need to know, hey, things didn't work out with mom or dad or both or whatever the situation was, but somebody's here for me and they're gonna look out for me. And it's showing them that every day in, oh, you need a snack? I'll help you with that. Or, oh, You're upset. Let me give you a hug. Showing them that every day is what they need. And so I would say 3 months, a year. I mean, it's not realistic in our society, but it would be good. Well, that doesn't mean we can't ask for it. Absolutely. And hold out for it. I don't know if any other countries have that. I mean, 2.7 million people, really, actually it's edging more towards 3 million, should have a unified voice. You're right. You're a hun— Well, start fighting for it. Let's do it. That's what I plan on doing. Yeah. We'll, we'll do it. We'll do it all. We'll do maternity leave, paternity leave, grandparent leave. We'll get it all. And childcare should definitely be supported. I was speaking with someone about that. I mean, if you are taking care of, there is some support if you're taking care of a child full-time. There isn't for us as grandparents because we didn't bring them through the foster care system because we took them directly. There is nothing for us financially. Gosh. But, and there should be, but for grandparents, for other parents that can get assistance, and it's different in different states. I mean, there's so many grandparents providing childcare, basically full-time for parents who both need to work in order to support their families. And I think there should be, there should be subsidy for that as well. We just need to gather our, our resources and our voices and ask for what we need. And I think that it would make our jobs so much easier. So many grandparents have to go back to work after they're retired, and you shouldn't have to take money out of, out of a 401k or your Social Security savings to take care of children. Thank you so much for your time, Lindsay. It's just been a pleasure. I've loved meeting you and I've loved sharing your information and I hope we speak again. Thank you, Laura. This was a pleasure and you and your community are doing such meaningful work. It's really a privilege to be here speaking to you and supporting you on that really critical role that you're playing in these kids' lives. Thank you. We appreciate it. That was amazing. I want you to step into the reflection room with me. Look at your hand.

communication, consistency, choices, consequences, and checking yourself. Which of those fingers are you neglecting today? Are you expecting a 7-year-old brain to act like an 18-year-old brain? So take one C this week, maybe it's just checking yourself, before the tornado starts and see how the atmosphere in your boardroom changes. You don't have to be on 100% of the time. 50% is the win. Give yourself that grace and don't forget to download Lindsay's 5 C's chart through the link in the show notes. We've got it on our refrigerator door. It's working for everyone in our family, and slowly but surely, it's making a difference. I hope you'll join us next week as we welcome Braden Black. We're moving from the blueprint to the identity, specifically how to help the successor in your home find their own voice. So if you've got any teens in the household, they have to listen to this. You listen to it first and then share it with them. Braden is an identity restorer who works specifically with youth to bridge the 50-year generation gap. You won't want to miss this episode. We are 2.7 million strong, still nurturing, and still here. We're moving from because I said so to amazing parenting, balancing the warmth of a sanctuary with the structure of a boardroom. Your home is the most important infrastructure in the country. Keep nurturing, keep leading, and I'll see you in the next boardroom.