Oct. 6, 2025
Straight Talk With Love: Addressing Childhood Trauma
Are you a grandparent raising grandchildren who have experienced trauma, struggling to break cycles of silence and create an emotionally healthy home? Do you worry about how your own childhood wounds impact your family’s well-being? Are you searching for real-world strategies to help your grandchildren heal in a world that feels very different from the one you grew up in?
I’m Laura Brazan, host of 'Grandparents Raising Grandchildren: Nurturing Through Adversity.' In this episode, “Straight Talk with Love – Addressing Childhood Trauma,” we sit down with licensed professional counselor and trauma survivor Stacy Schaffer, author of With Love from a Children’s Therapist. Together, we dive into the transformative power of play, storytelling, and authentic connection as tools to address trauma and foster intergenerational healing.
You’ll hear candid stories of resilience, practical conversation starters for building trust, and expert insights on tackling shame, stigma, and the emotional complexities that grandparents and kinship caregivers face. If you want to learn how to recognize hidden pain beneath “shiny” behavior and create a foundation of safety and understanding for the children in your care, this episode is for you. To read more about Stacy and her work, please visit her website.
Join our supportive community as we honor your journey, break the silence around childhood trauma, and discover hopeful new ways to nurture your family.
This week, we talk to Cheri, a grandmother who is living that nightmare and has decided to fight back. She shares her story of turning profound grief into a powerful movement to change the laws for grandparents rights. This is a must-listen episode about a silent epidemic and how you can join the fight to protect the sacred bond between grandparents and their grandchildren.
I love getting your fan mail. Here's one who recently rote in.
Thank you for tuning into today's episode. It's been a journey of shared stories, insights, and invaluable advice from the heart of a community that knows the beauty and challenges of raising grandchildren. Your presence and engagement mean the world to us and to grandparents everywhere stepping up in ways they never imagined.
Remember, you're not alone on this journey. For more resources, support, and stories, visit our website and follow us on our social media channels. If today's episode moved you, consider sharing it with someone who might find comfort and connection in our shared experiences.
We look forward to bringing more stories and expert advice your way next week. Until then, take care of yourselves and each other.
Want to be a guest on Grandparents Raising Grandchildren: Nurturing Through Adversity? Send Laura Brazan a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/grg
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00:00 - "Grandparents Raising Grandchildren Podcast"
06:43 - Kidnapped and Lost Everything
09:56 - "Prioritize Inner Well-Being"
13:25 - "Overcoming Stigma Through Honesty"
18:20 - The Power of Heartfelt Apologies
22:41 - Conversation Skills Missing from Education
25:05 - "Grandmother's Crucial Support"
27:12 - Navigating Generational Differences at Home
32:51 - Navigating Grief for Grandfamilies
33:42 - "Grief Healing for Grandparents"
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This week, we're joined by Stacy Schaeffer, a licensed professional counselor and survivor of childhood trauma, as we dive into her new book, With Love from a Children's Therapist, discover how early experiences shape us, and learn practical ways to recognize and address trauma in young people. Stacy shares her unique dual perspective on healing, emphasizing the power of play, storytelling, and creating authentic safety to foster intergenerational well being. She talks to these kids like it. Is, in a way that makes them feel safe.
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So tune in for a vital conversation on breaking silence and building a foundation of emotional wholeness for the children you love.
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Welcome to Grandparents Raising Grandchildren Nurturing through Adversity. In this podcast, we will delve deep into the challenges and triumphs of grandparents Raising grandchildren as we navigate the complexities of legal, financial and emotional support. I invite you to join us on a journey of exploring thoughts, feelings and beliefs surrounding this growing segment of our society. Drawing from real stories and expert advice, we will explore the nuances of childrearing for children who have experienced trauma and offer valuable resources to guide you through the intricate journey of kinship care.
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We'll discuss how we can change the course of history by rewriting our grandchildren's future, all within a support community that understands the unique joys and struggles. This podcast was made especially for you.
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Welcome to a community where your voice is heard, your experiences are valued, and your journey is honored.
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I personally am a survivor of childhood trauma and it affected my whole life. It still does. No one ever truly understood my lack of self esteem because of it, and no one wanted to hear about my nightmares and all the other fears I carried. I turned to unhealthy habits, never understanding why. And then I shoved it all away somewhere deep inside. That is, until my grandchildren came along and I had to help them recognize and understand their own trauma. And then it all came flooding back to me. I cared enough to heal myself so that I could truly help them heal.
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Listen to Stacy Schaeffer's story and how she's helping facilitate intergenerational healing. Stacy, welcome to the show. I'm so honored to have you, especially with the unique ones that you bring to the work that you're doing as a licensed professional counselor and a survivor yourself of personal trauma. Would you share with us a bit about your journey and how that sparked your passion for the work that you're doing now with families? Ah, well, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. So my story we started started fairly young. I was a survivor of sexual abuse when I was really young, from like 3 to 10.
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I ended up going to court. Like, that was back in the day when we thought it was a good idea for kids to testify and so testified at age 10. And then I had another trauma at age 11.
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My mom had thought it would be a good idea for me to get residential care treatment. So I don't exactly know how she thought it was a good idea, but she had men kidnot at me in the middle of the night to go to another state.
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That year was definitely the worst part of my story.
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I came back, and my mom was dying of breast cancer.
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She ended up dying when I just turned 22. I am an only child, and there's no more living family.
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But when I returned from Utah, I became really shiny, really shiny. You know, I thought that that was the way to give love and to be safe. And so I shoved all the feelings aside and just became skilled at whatever I tried to do and survived. You survived? Yeah, yeah. And so. And that. And that served me. So I really, as a clinician, I really look for, like, signs of the kids that are like, things are going great. Yeah. My grades are amazing. Life is amazing, you know, and it's. It's not saying that there isn't an element of truth in there, but. So my.
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My mom, when she had died, I had already planned to go to grad school. She died in June of 2001, and I hadn't graduated with my bachelor's yet. And so I'd already had a plan to go to grad school and be a therapist, because let's help other people instead. And so went through the process of that. I learned about the specialty of children's bereavement. So, like, grieving kids. And I think a part of me was like, if you are going to bring your kid to therapy, they're already better. They have someone that cares about them. There's someone. So there's some hope, because I get the question a lot. Like, I mean, life is heavy, right? Um, but I think it's beautiful that there's someone paying attention to them. There's someone attuned enough to be like, this kid has needs that I don't know what to do with. Please help me. Um, and so I'm in private practice, and I see kids, teens, and young adults.
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So that's a little bit of a summary.
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How do you think the work that we're doing today is different from how this type of trauma was handled when we were kids?
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Oh, wow. So different. I always say to parents during an intake session, I Say, I want you to frame it to your kids, like when they're going to counseling, that it's a gift as opposed to something wrong with you. Because how different would our lives be if we had a therapist at 10? I think just the basic awareness has changed.
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I've seen kids as young as three people are. You know, people are like, do kids have awareness of that? Yeah, we always have. They always have. It was just responded to different.
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I think that I personally slipped through the cracks because I was so shiny. And I think now there's so much. There's social, emotional learning. Tell us what you mean by shiny. So what I mean when I say shiny is that, you know, we are set up in our world to have as good of an outward appearance as we can. Right? I mean, that's how the world remains in motion, is that we have our outsides look really shiny, and that for so many reasons, that serves us well. You know, we want to have a good appearance, to get jobs, to meet friends, but sometimes our insides don't match our outside.
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And so we can look really shiny on the outside, but be really crying for help on the inside. And so I spent so many years getting the best grades and being really social and having lots and lots of achievements and being really shiny in that way. But I was absolutely crying for help on the inside.
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And so I think sometimes we focus too much on the outward appearance of a person or, you know, in this case, our children that are the kids who present as extra shiny.
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We sometimes don't worry about them as much when in fact, we really need to be paying attention to the kids who present as shiny. As kids know terms they know gaslighting, not always used correctly, we know so much more. It's. I would say if I had to pick one thing, it would be awareness. We have so much more awareness. I think that as grandparents raising grandchildren, we've had to overcome a lot of the stigmas, a lot of the shame that was associated with some of the things we're talking about, the things that have happened to these grandchildren are issues and situations that I think even a lot of parents today don't even want their children to hear about. But the fact is, it's going on, it's happening, and it affects us.
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So what do you think is the most exciting thing in mental health that's happening in trauma recovery right now? Well, I recently wrote a book and I talked about those things about that. It's exciting that our kids don't let you speak of stigma and shame. Our kids are losing that. You know, I got a phone call once that someone said, my kid was told about you by their friend on the playground. Is that the cutest referral you've ever had? And I was like, yeah, it's adorable. And so our teenagers, I've seen so many that wear it like a badge of honor because I go over an intake, like, if you see me in public, you can say hi to me. I can't say hi to you. And they're like, why? And I always say, because you might be with a friend.
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And they might be like, who is that? And why does she wear so much purple? And like, those are questions you can't answer because I don't always like it. And so it puts you in an awkward situation because they're like, but why wouldn't I just say, this is my therapist. I'm like, you can. I just can't. And so I think. I think so much is changing. It's saving lives that, like, our kids and even younger are like, yeah, I go to talk to someone, life is hard. Yeah. And so it's so beautiful to me that it's not like. Because when I was 10 and had to do the whole court thing, I wrote about this in my book, but this. My class, my fifth grade class was told that my extended absence was because of mononucleosis. They, like, made up a whole story while I was gone, which, you know, there's elements of. It's not really appropriate for them to all know, but I think sometimes it's important.
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Yeah, but like, that they went to the length of that was. Is interesting to me, but we don't carry the same stigma anymore. And I think that that's helping so many.
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Your debut book, with love from a children's therapist.
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There must have been a point in your life when you realized you had put everything in a nice place. And then all of a sudden, how did you see that that was impacting your life? What started cropping up when you realized what you thought was a normal life wasn't working right?
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Yeah, there's. There's a couple of, like, significant things that happened. But one, one of the first things that happened was I was at a dinner party in my community, and someone said, when I was 11, I, like, did this delinquent thing. And someone's like, When I was 11, I did this thing. And then without thinking about it, I was like, yeah, when I was 11, I was kidnapped. And everyone's like. And it was like a record stop moment in the 80s. And I was like, oh, I.
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I never mentioned that. And everyone's like, the wide eye emoji. And I was like, yeah, that's a.
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I mean, now that's a topic for dinner conversation, right?
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Yeah. Like, and just the fact that I hadn't really talked about that with anyone was. And so I started doing my own therapy. I talk a lot in my book about the importance of therapists, like, in their own therapy. I tell my clients a lot, you have a grand therapist. And so I think that that was kind of a catalyst. And there. There are a couple other significant things, but I've been doing healing work since around that time, which was, like, I would say, 2011, like, actively engaging, because we can only help people heal as far as we'd healed, you know, and so it's. It's made me more grounded and authentic to do my own work. Well, I found that myself in the work that I'm doing with my grandchildren, because in many ways, I always thought that if I, you know, had the right life, the right job, then I would be happy. And then these children came into my life who had been physically abused, emotionally abused, mentally abused, and I found anger coming out in me that I didn't realize was there. So although, you know, I had many times when the anger was justified, but the way it came out shocked me. Sure. The intensity of it. Right. So when we have safe people to be with, you know, when we have spouses or loved ones or partners that can say, oh, this is a wonderful person that I'm involved in a relationship with, but she's reacting very oddly to a situation that maybe wouldn't cause as much anger from another person.
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They can say, what's going on in your life? How do we be safe people and create safe environments, even when we may have our own trauma that we're dealing with with these children. Yeah. I mean, I think, like, so.
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So much of it is just being honest about it and, like, owning it. You know, if there's, like, a disproportional reaction, kind of like to get curious about that instead of being punitive towards ourselves, like, that's. That's an opportunity. Right.
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And I think one of the most healing things, you know, for grandparents and parents, because grandparents are, like, changing the legacy. Right. Like, by. By doing those things.
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Yes. I think that apologizing for where one went wrong is. Is huge. And it is so healing because, you know, these kids are being raised by humans.
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Right. So, of course there's going to be opportunity, you know, for rupture and repair. And so I'll like, I've asked kids if something significant has happened with, say, an estranged parent.
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I'm like, ever get an apology for that? And kids are like, what are you talking about? Like, they would never apologize, you know, and I stink. Heartfelt apologies go a long way.
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I think that was part of our generation.
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A man apologizing to a child was just something that didn't happen. It might have happened more with a mother, but sure, unheard of. And it takes a lot of courage to break cycles. Are you kidding? For sure. How can we go about sharing vulnerabilities? What kind of transformative tools have you found in breaking those silences between generations?
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Well, I mean, I think, like I have a list in my book of prompts of ways to start a conversation. One of my favorites is, you know, if we could. Oh, I have a therapy dog. This is Willow. I wish everybody could see Willow. Beautiful.
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She's a one year old golden. Golden retriever.
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Yeah. Do you have her in your office with plants?
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Oh, wonderful. She's been in my office since she was nine weeks old because I got her two year therapy doll. And so she's the most precious thing.
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But in this moment. Oh, no, we people that don't understand children and animals are not on my show.
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Yeah, yeah, she's a, she's a doll. And, and so she's doing fantastic. She crawled in someone's lap who was crying the other day. Pretty adorable. Yeah. I borrow other people's animals for my kids because I can't handle having a pet at this stage. I'm just. I feel like I have three pets at home already. Yeah, she's a lot of work. She's a doll, but she's a lot of work. And so I like, I have, in answer to your question about, you know, ways that can help. So I have. This is my book, but I have some conversation starters in here. And I literally, literally just turned to that page. I was just like flipping and I literally turned to that. There you go. But it's. All of my chapters are hashtags because you know the language of this generation. But this chapter is called Hashtag Empathy Training how to help.
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And so, like, I have in here some. Read us some of them.
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Yeah. Truth is, I have no idea what to say, but I'm on your side.
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Is there something you would tell me if you didn't think you would get in trouble? If you had one wish, what I would understand about you? What would it be?
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I'm sorry. I'm sorry for not Hearing you sooner. I am here now. Please let me try again. And the one I was going to tell you without opening the book is this one. If you could redo a conversation we had, what would go different? Wow.
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And so my personal favorite is we'll figure it out together. That's great.
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I think when a kid knows that you are unequivocally on their side, things change.
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It's hard for grandparents. And I admit I don't think it's just grandparents. I'm sorry, I think it's our society just has not learned real life terminology, useful terminology. When we communicate with each other, we really have to work on that. Yeah, no, for sure. I think that sometimes because we're not trained like they teach us in elementary school how to square dance but like they, they don't teach us like how to not shut down a conversation.
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And so thanks for the square dance. I mean, I guess that is not proven to be helpful but I think just like knowing like commit the words and like, like not saying things that like squash someone down. Because I, I written here about sometimes we try to, to connect with kids saying, you know, I was a kid once too. I'm like, of course you were. You, of course you had to deal with awkward social dynamics in school and that kind of thing. But none of us, like myself included know what it's like to be a kid.
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This current generation in this world, like I cannot imagine having like the social media context following me when I come home from school.
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Right. And so there's a whole big thing in there about how having social media and those kind of things like at kids fingertips is a much different childhood than we have. Yes.
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The stream of thought conversations that come when you have children are so much less formal than the way saying what's on your mind is not something that we do very commonly. Just saying I feel kind of like I need to be alone or you know, we try and perform, you know, in situations where we really may not want to be around people or saying, you know, I really don't know what to say about that because we need to feel as parents that we always have an answer for everything, right? Well, yeah. I mean I even think the only grandparent that I ever knew, she was my mom's mom. She died when I was 10. And I, I think of that in terms because I have a lot of like grandparents that bring the kids, you know, here for a variety of reasons. So I interact with a lot of grandparents which is like fantastic. But she was, she wasn't mean. But she was a very cold woman. She's from, from Wales, really cold. And I like, I think it would be so confusing to hear her say, how do you feel about that, Stacy?
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You know, like, I just need to do the right. Behave when I was at her house and like, you know, like, eat the food she put in front of me and like, make no fuss. I.
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But she did say to my mom, like, like, maybe you should listen to her about what was going on because I had, it's a whole thing. But I had tried to communicate what was happening to me, the sexual abuse, like for my uncle, and my mom couldn't hear it. And my.
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I. Well, in my most, I don't know, significant moments, my grandmother was like, terri, you should listen to her.
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And my mom did not. And so I think had my grandmother, you know, who died in 1989, you know, been given some tools, like, if she had any access, how would that have changed the course of history?
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Changed the course of history. If she would have been able to take me, I think she just, you know, like, that wasn't a thing.
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She had taken me, so I didn't come any of those things. I would have told her. Yeah, I, like, like someone listened to me. It brings up a point because at our age we're less tolerant to loud noise and children make a lot of noise and they're very loud. Some are quieter than others.
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Ours in particular are not. And so we have to create quiet space for ourselves. And it's not that necessarily. You might say you're talking too loudly. Well, they're talking too loudly for us because we need quiet time or we need the volume to be smaller. And I'll say, I'm starting to learn to say, if you're going to make that much noise, go outside because we need quiet space here. It's part of acknowledging that there are generational differences and yet we have to accommodate that. If we're living in a multi generational family, there's the needs of the parent, there's the need of the grandparent, there's the need of the children, and they're not the same. So acknowledging that and creating space for each other to be who we are, but still be able to express our feelings is important.
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And sometimes we have to say, I wasn't raised to talk about those things. I acknowledge with my grandchildren that my husband is raised from a very conservative farming family and it's not comfortable for him to say things. But what you might do is you might have to teach him. So say you Know, when you talk with me like this or you don't listen to me, it hurts my feelings. And so I don't think anybody can change a person's heart like a child can, because inside, we're all children. We all have a place where we're still children. So they have things to teach us, too. That's why the communication and the language is so important. I know that Synergetic Play therapy is an important part of the therapy that you do. Tell us a little bit about that before we wrap up our conversation. So Synergetic Play therapy was created by Lisa Dion, and she is actually here in Colorado, and it's become a huge thing. I get a lot of emails that are like, I want an SPT therapist.
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There's multiple aspects of spt.
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One of the, like, most crucial components is about attunement.
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And so the idea is that a kid is going to come in, and not intentionally, they are going to set you up to feel the way that they feel.
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And so awareness of how you feel is crucial. Right. And it's also kind of true in, you know, Sandra therapy, where they're putting figures in the sand. And then so you're like, wow, like, I. I'm feeling like, that's really intense. And they're like, yeah, get it.
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Because the language of kids is play. And so, you know, the younger kids aren't going to be like, I am feeling really dysregulated when I go to soccer practice. Like, they're not going to say that, but they're going to show you in lots of ways. And so a component of SBT is authenticity. And then it's like, kids can sniff out, like, a fake a mile away, you know, and so it's. It's really important that when, you know, like, if I'm not feeling the greatest or something's going on in my life, that. And it's not an inappropriate, like, self disclosure, but I'll say to kids, I use the language of kids with a phone battery or, like an iPad battery. You know, I'm like, my battery's a little bit on a yellow today. And I'm like. And so it just. So, you know, it has nothing to do with you. Just, you know, um, and I'm happy to be with you, and I'm happy that you're here.
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And so. Because kids, like, they can pick anything up, right? You know, they sniff that out. Well, and ties into the previous conversation about talking about real feelings.
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Right? Talking about really what's going on, what you know and what you don't know, how you feel and how you don't feel. Sure.
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And like, you know. And I like wrote about and talk about this and tie into our previous conversation that, like, I'm like, yeah, like, you know, kids will say something about, yeah, like, you probably think I'm crazy because I'm in therapy. And I was like, I'm in therapy. And they're like, why you? And I'm like, life is hard. Life is hard, you know, because I don't want them to set up a false, like, image of, like, me having it together. I. I'm equipped enough to support you, but I'm also having the human experience that we're all having together. This was a great conversation. I want to share with listeners more about how they can find out about your wonderful work, your book With Love from a Children's Therapist or connect with Strong Hearts Counseling Online.
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I have a website that my publishing company set up for me and it's authorstacychafer.com then you can find links to be able to contact me or to learn more about my book. Thanks, Stacey. I'll make sure to put those in the show notes. Okay. Thanks so much for your time.
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Yeah. Thank you for having me and for sharing your insights.
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It's been enlightening and powerful. Thank you. Yeah.
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I just love Stacy's fresh approach. Our conversations given us so much to reflect on. We've learned that a trauma informed approach delivered with love and honesty can help our children heal their past. What was your biggest takeaway from the discussion? What's one small step? You're inspired to take a look at beyond a child's behavior and see the trauma that may be underneath. The conversation doesn't end here, though, and you can find even more of Stacy's wisdom in her debut book, With Love from a Children's Therapist. I love that the chapter titles are emojis too, which perfectly capture her modern, relatable approach. You can get a copy and learn more about Stacy's work at author Stacy.
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Schaeffer.com Again, we'll put that in the show notes. And if you know another grandparent who could benefit from this message of hope and healing, please share this episode with them to Together we can help nurture a deeper, more lasting kind of healing for our families.
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And as we continue to nurture our children through adversity, it's vital to acknowledge and address the heavy topic of grief that so many of us carry. Whether it's the loss of a loved one or the loss of the family we once knew. Grief is a silent presence in many of our homes. Next Week on episode 82, prepare for a compassionate and insightful conversation with Dr. Jerry Woodbridge, a grief advocate and educator. Dr. Woodbridge specializes in helping grand families navigate the complex layers of grief to build a lasting legacy of hope. Join us to learn how to identify and process the grief that impacts not only us, but also our grandchildren. We'll explore how to find strength in our spiritual needs and personal struggles and discover practical ways to build a new path forward, one rooted in healing and hope. Tune in next week to find a new way to move through grief and build a stronger, more hopeful future for your family. Thank you for tuning in to grandparents, raising grandchildren, Nurturing through Adversity. Remember, you are not alone. Together we can find strength and hope in the face of adversity. Peace be with you, and I pray that you find some time this week to listen to your inner wisdom amongst the noise and the pandemonium of this world.
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This week, we're joined by Stacy Schaeffer, a licensed professional counselor and survivor of childhood trauma, as we dive into her new book, With Love from a Children's Therapist, discover how early experiences shape us, and learn practical ways to recognize and address trauma in young people. Stacy shares her unique dual perspective on healing, emphasizing the power of play, storytelling, and creating authentic safety to foster intergenerational well being. She talks to these kids like it. Is, in a way that makes them feel safe.
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So tune in for a vital conversation on breaking silence and building a foundation of emotional wholeness for the children you love.
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Welcome to Grandparents Raising Grandchildren Nurturing through Adversity. In this podcast, we will delve deep into the challenges and triumphs of grandparents Raising grandchildren as we navigate the complexities of legal, financial and emotional support. I invite you to join us on a journey of exploring thoughts, feelings and beliefs surrounding this growing segment of our society. Drawing from real stories and expert advice, we will explore the nuances of childrearing for children who have experienced trauma and offer valuable resources to guide you through the intricate journey of kinship care.
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We'll discuss how we can change the course of history by rewriting our grandchildren's future, all within a support community that understands the unique joys and struggles. This podcast was made especially for you.
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Welcome to a community where your voice is heard, your experiences are valued, and your journey is honored.
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I personally am a survivor of childhood trauma and it affected my whole life. It still does. No one ever truly understood my lack of self esteem because of it, and no one wanted to hear about my nightmares and all the other fears I carried. I turned to unhealthy habits, never understanding why. And then I shoved it all away somewhere deep inside. That is, until my grandchildren came along and I had to help them recognize and understand their own trauma. And then it all came flooding back to me. I cared enough to heal myself so that I could truly help them heal.
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Listen to Stacy Schaeffer's story and how she's helping facilitate intergenerational healing. Stacy, welcome to the show. I'm so honored to have you, especially with the unique ones that you bring to the work that you're doing as a licensed professional counselor and a survivor yourself of personal trauma. Would you share with us a bit about your journey and how that sparked your passion for the work that you're doing now with families? Ah, well, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. So my story we started started fairly young. I was a survivor of sexual abuse when I was really young, from like 3 to 10.
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I ended up going to court. Like, that was back in the day when we thought it was a good idea for kids to testify and so testified at age 10. And then I had another trauma at age 11.
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My mom had thought it would be a good idea for me to get residential care treatment. So I don't exactly know how she thought it was a good idea, but she had men kidnot at me in the middle of the night to go to another state.
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That year was definitely the worst part of my story.
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I came back, and my mom was dying of breast cancer.
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She ended up dying when I just turned 22. I am an only child, and there's no more living family.
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But when I returned from Utah, I became really shiny, really shiny. You know, I thought that that was the way to give love and to be safe. And so I shoved all the feelings aside and just became skilled at whatever I tried to do and survived. You survived? Yeah, yeah. And so. And that. And that served me. So I really, as a clinician, I really look for, like, signs of the kids that are like, things are going great. Yeah. My grades are amazing. Life is amazing, you know, and it's. It's not saying that there isn't an element of truth in there, but. So my.
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My mom, when she had died, I had already planned to go to grad school. She died in June of 2001, and I hadn't graduated with my bachelor's yet. And so I'd already had a plan to go to grad school and be a therapist, because let's help other people instead. And so went through the process of that. I learned about the specialty of children's bereavement. So, like, grieving kids. And I think a part of me was like, if you are going to bring your kid to therapy, they're already better. They have someone that cares about them. There's someone. So there's some hope, because I get the question a lot. Like, I mean, life is heavy, right? Um, but I think it's beautiful that there's someone paying attention to them. There's someone attuned enough to be like, this kid has needs that I don't know what to do with. Please help me. Um, and so I'm in private practice, and I see kids, teens, and young adults.
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So that's a little bit of a summary.
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How do you think the work that we're doing today is different from how this type of trauma was handled when we were kids?
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Oh, wow. So different. I always say to parents during an intake session, I Say, I want you to frame it to your kids, like when they're going to counseling, that it's a gift as opposed to something wrong with you. Because how different would our lives be if we had a therapist at 10? I think just the basic awareness has changed.
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I've seen kids as young as three people are. You know, people are like, do kids have awareness of that? Yeah, we always have. They always have. It was just responded to different.
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I think that I personally slipped through the cracks because I was so shiny. And I think now there's so much. There's social, emotional learning. Tell us what you mean by shiny. So what I mean when I say shiny is that, you know, we are set up in our world to have as good of an outward appearance as we can. Right? I mean, that's how the world remains in motion, is that we have our outsides look really shiny, and that for so many reasons, that serves us well. You know, we want to have a good appearance, to get jobs, to meet friends, but sometimes our insides don't match our outside.
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And so we can look really shiny on the outside, but be really crying for help on the inside. And so I spent so many years getting the best grades and being really social and having lots and lots of achievements and being really shiny in that way. But I was absolutely crying for help on the inside.
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And so I think sometimes we focus too much on the outward appearance of a person or, you know, in this case, our children that are the kids who present as extra shiny.
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We sometimes don't worry about them as much when in fact, we really need to be paying attention to the kids who present as shiny. As kids know terms they know gaslighting, not always used correctly, we know so much more. It's. I would say if I had to pick one thing, it would be awareness. We have so much more awareness. I think that as grandparents raising grandchildren, we've had to overcome a lot of the stigmas, a lot of the shame that was associated with some of the things we're talking about, the things that have happened to these grandchildren are issues and situations that I think even a lot of parents today don't even want their children to hear about. But the fact is, it's going on, it's happening, and it affects us.
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So what do you think is the most exciting thing in mental health that's happening in trauma recovery right now? Well, I recently wrote a book and I talked about those things about that. It's exciting that our kids don't let you speak of stigma and shame. Our kids are losing that. You know, I got a phone call once that someone said, my kid was told about you by their friend on the playground. Is that the cutest referral you've ever had? And I was like, yeah, it's adorable. And so our teenagers, I've seen so many that wear it like a badge of honor because I go over an intake, like, if you see me in public, you can say hi to me. I can't say hi to you. And they're like, why? And I always say, because you might be with a friend.
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And they might be like, who is that? And why does she wear so much purple? And like, those are questions you can't answer because I don't always like it. And so it puts you in an awkward situation because they're like, but why wouldn't I just say, this is my therapist. I'm like, you can. I just can't. And so I think. I think so much is changing. It's saving lives that, like, our kids and even younger are like, yeah, I go to talk to someone, life is hard. Yeah. And so it's so beautiful to me that it's not like. Because when I was 10 and had to do the whole court thing, I wrote about this in my book, but this. My class, my fifth grade class was told that my extended absence was because of mononucleosis. They, like, made up a whole story while I was gone, which, you know, there's elements of. It's not really appropriate for them to all know, but I think sometimes it's important.
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Yeah, but like, that they went to the length of that was. Is interesting to me, but we don't carry the same stigma anymore. And I think that that's helping so many.
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Your debut book, with love from a children's therapist.
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There must have been a point in your life when you realized you had put everything in a nice place. And then all of a sudden, how did you see that that was impacting your life? What started cropping up when you realized what you thought was a normal life wasn't working right?
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Yeah, there's. There's a couple of, like, significant things that happened. But one, one of the first things that happened was I was at a dinner party in my community, and someone said, when I was 11, I, like, did this delinquent thing. And someone's like, When I was 11, I did this thing. And then without thinking about it, I was like, yeah, when I was 11, I was kidnapped. And everyone's like. And it was like a record stop moment in the 80s. And I was like, oh, I.
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I never mentioned that. And everyone's like, the wide eye emoji. And I was like, yeah, that's a.
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I mean, now that's a topic for dinner conversation, right?
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Yeah. Like, and just the fact that I hadn't really talked about that with anyone was. And so I started doing my own therapy. I talk a lot in my book about the importance of therapists, like, in their own therapy. I tell my clients a lot, you have a grand therapist. And so I think that that was kind of a catalyst. And there. There are a couple other significant things, but I've been doing healing work since around that time, which was, like, I would say, 2011, like, actively engaging, because we can only help people heal as far as we'd healed, you know, and so it's. It's made me more grounded and authentic to do my own work. Well, I found that myself in the work that I'm doing with my grandchildren, because in many ways, I always thought that if I, you know, had the right life, the right job, then I would be happy. And then these children came into my life who had been physically abused, emotionally abused, mentally abused, and I found anger coming out in me that I didn't realize was there. So although, you know, I had many times when the anger was justified, but the way it came out shocked me. Sure. The intensity of it. Right. So when we have safe people to be with, you know, when we have spouses or loved ones or partners that can say, oh, this is a wonderful person that I'm involved in a relationship with, but she's reacting very oddly to a situation that maybe wouldn't cause as much anger from another person.
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They can say, what's going on in your life? How do we be safe people and create safe environments, even when we may have our own trauma that we're dealing with with these children. Yeah. I mean, I think, like, so.
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So much of it is just being honest about it and, like, owning it. You know, if there's, like, a disproportional reaction, kind of like to get curious about that instead of being punitive towards ourselves, like, that's. That's an opportunity. Right.
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And I think one of the most healing things, you know, for grandparents and parents, because grandparents are, like, changing the legacy. Right. Like, by. By doing those things.
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Yes. I think that apologizing for where one went wrong is. Is huge. And it is so healing because, you know, these kids are being raised by humans.
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Right. So, of course there's going to be opportunity, you know, for rupture and repair. And so I'll like, I've asked kids if something significant has happened with, say, an estranged parent.
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I'm like, ever get an apology for that? And kids are like, what are you talking about? Like, they would never apologize, you know, and I stink. Heartfelt apologies go a long way.
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I think that was part of our generation.
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A man apologizing to a child was just something that didn't happen. It might have happened more with a mother, but sure, unheard of. And it takes a lot of courage to break cycles. Are you kidding? For sure. How can we go about sharing vulnerabilities? What kind of transformative tools have you found in breaking those silences between generations?
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Well, I mean, I think, like I have a list in my book of prompts of ways to start a conversation. One of my favorites is, you know, if we could. Oh, I have a therapy dog. This is Willow. I wish everybody could see Willow. Beautiful.
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She's a one year old golden. Golden retriever.
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Yeah. Do you have her in your office with plants?
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Oh, wonderful. She's been in my office since she was nine weeks old because I got her two year therapy doll. And so she's the most precious thing.
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But in this moment. Oh, no, we people that don't understand children and animals are not on my show.
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Yeah, yeah, she's a, she's a doll. And, and so she's doing fantastic. She crawled in someone's lap who was crying the other day. Pretty adorable. Yeah. I borrow other people's animals for my kids because I can't handle having a pet at this stage. I'm just. I feel like I have three pets at home already. Yeah, she's a lot of work. She's a doll, but she's a lot of work. And so I like, I have, in answer to your question about, you know, ways that can help. So I have. This is my book, but I have some conversation starters in here. And I literally, literally just turned to that page. I was just like flipping and I literally turned to that. There you go. But it's. All of my chapters are hashtags because you know the language of this generation. But this chapter is called Hashtag Empathy Training how to help.
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And so, like, I have in here some. Read us some of them.
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Yeah. Truth is, I have no idea what to say, but I'm on your side.
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Is there something you would tell me if you didn't think you would get in trouble? If you had one wish, what I would understand about you? What would it be?
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I'm sorry. I'm sorry for not Hearing you sooner. I am here now. Please let me try again. And the one I was going to tell you without opening the book is this one. If you could redo a conversation we had, what would go different? Wow.
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And so my personal favorite is we'll figure it out together. That's great.
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I think when a kid knows that you are unequivocally on their side, things change.
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It's hard for grandparents. And I admit I don't think it's just grandparents. I'm sorry, I think it's our society just has not learned real life terminology, useful terminology. When we communicate with each other, we really have to work on that. Yeah, no, for sure. I think that sometimes because we're not trained like they teach us in elementary school how to square dance but like they, they don't teach us like how to not shut down a conversation.
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And so thanks for the square dance. I mean, I guess that is not proven to be helpful but I think just like knowing like commit the words and like, like not saying things that like squash someone down. Because I, I written here about sometimes we try to, to connect with kids saying, you know, I was a kid once too. I'm like, of course you were. You, of course you had to deal with awkward social dynamics in school and that kind of thing. But none of us, like myself included know what it's like to be a kid.
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This current generation in this world, like I cannot imagine having like the social media context following me when I come home from school.
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Right. And so there's a whole big thing in there about how having social media and those kind of things like at kids fingertips is a much different childhood than we have. Yes.
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The stream of thought conversations that come when you have children are so much less formal than the way saying what's on your mind is not something that we do very commonly. Just saying I feel kind of like I need to be alone or you know, we try and perform, you know, in situations where we really may not want to be around people or saying, you know, I really don't know what to say about that because we need to feel as parents that we always have an answer for everything, right? Well, yeah. I mean I even think the only grandparent that I ever knew, she was my mom's mom. She died when I was 10. And I, I think of that in terms because I have a lot of like grandparents that bring the kids, you know, here for a variety of reasons. So I interact with a lot of grandparents which is like fantastic. But she was, she wasn't mean. But she was a very cold woman. She's from, from Wales, really cold. And I like, I think it would be so confusing to hear her say, how do you feel about that, Stacy?
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You know, like, I just need to do the right. Behave when I was at her house and like, you know, like, eat the food she put in front of me and like, make no fuss. I.
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But she did say to my mom, like, like, maybe you should listen to her about what was going on because I had, it's a whole thing. But I had tried to communicate what was happening to me, the sexual abuse, like for my uncle, and my mom couldn't hear it. And my.
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I. Well, in my most, I don't know, significant moments, my grandmother was like, terri, you should listen to her.
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And my mom did not. And so I think had my grandmother, you know, who died in 1989, you know, been given some tools, like, if she had any access, how would that have changed the course of history?
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Changed the course of history. If she would have been able to take me, I think she just, you know, like, that wasn't a thing.
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She had taken me, so I didn't come any of those things. I would have told her. Yeah, I, like, like someone listened to me. It brings up a point because at our age we're less tolerant to loud noise and children make a lot of noise and they're very loud. Some are quieter than others.
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Ours in particular are not. And so we have to create quiet space for ourselves. And it's not that necessarily. You might say you're talking too loudly. Well, they're talking too loudly for us because we need quiet time or we need the volume to be smaller. And I'll say, I'm starting to learn to say, if you're going to make that much noise, go outside because we need quiet space here. It's part of acknowledging that there are generational differences and yet we have to accommodate that. If we're living in a multi generational family, there's the needs of the parent, there's the need of the grandparent, there's the need of the children, and they're not the same. So acknowledging that and creating space for each other to be who we are, but still be able to express our feelings is important.
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And sometimes we have to say, I wasn't raised to talk about those things. I acknowledge with my grandchildren that my husband is raised from a very conservative farming family and it's not comfortable for him to say things. But what you might do is you might have to teach him. So say you Know, when you talk with me like this or you don't listen to me, it hurts my feelings. And so I don't think anybody can change a person's heart like a child can, because inside, we're all children. We all have a place where we're still children. So they have things to teach us, too. That's why the communication and the language is so important. I know that Synergetic Play therapy is an important part of the therapy that you do. Tell us a little bit about that before we wrap up our conversation. So Synergetic Play therapy was created by Lisa Dion, and she is actually here in Colorado, and it's become a huge thing. I get a lot of emails that are like, I want an SPT therapist.
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There's multiple aspects of spt.
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One of the, like, most crucial components is about attunement.
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And so the idea is that a kid is going to come in, and not intentionally, they are going to set you up to feel the way that they feel.
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And so awareness of how you feel is crucial. Right. And it's also kind of true in, you know, Sandra therapy, where they're putting figures in the sand. And then so you're like, wow, like, I. I'm feeling like, that's really intense. And they're like, yeah, get it.
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Because the language of kids is play. And so, you know, the younger kids aren't going to be like, I am feeling really dysregulated when I go to soccer practice. Like, they're not going to say that, but they're going to show you in lots of ways. And so a component of SBT is authenticity. And then it's like, kids can sniff out, like, a fake a mile away, you know, and so it's. It's really important that when, you know, like, if I'm not feeling the greatest or something's going on in my life, that. And it's not an inappropriate, like, self disclosure, but I'll say to kids, I use the language of kids with a phone battery or, like an iPad battery. You know, I'm like, my battery's a little bit on a yellow today. And I'm like. And so it just. So, you know, it has nothing to do with you. Just, you know, um, and I'm happy to be with you, and I'm happy that you're here.
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And so. Because kids, like, they can pick anything up, right? You know, they sniff that out. Well, and ties into the previous conversation about talking about real feelings.
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Right? Talking about really what's going on, what you know and what you don't know, how you feel and how you don't feel. Sure.
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And like, you know. And I like wrote about and talk about this and tie into our previous conversation that, like, I'm like, yeah, like, you know, kids will say something about, yeah, like, you probably think I'm crazy because I'm in therapy. And I was like, I'm in therapy. And they're like, why you? And I'm like, life is hard. Life is hard, you know, because I don't want them to set up a false, like, image of, like, me having it together. I. I'm equipped enough to support you, but I'm also having the human experience that we're all having together. This was a great conversation. I want to share with listeners more about how they can find out about your wonderful work, your book With Love from a Children's Therapist or connect with Strong Hearts Counseling Online.
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I have a website that my publishing company set up for me and it's authorstacychafer.com then you can find links to be able to contact me or to learn more about my book. Thanks, Stacey. I'll make sure to put those in the show notes. Okay. Thanks so much for your time.
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Yeah. Thank you for having me and for sharing your insights.
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It's been enlightening and powerful. Thank you. Yeah.
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I just love Stacy's fresh approach. Our conversations given us so much to reflect on. We've learned that a trauma informed approach delivered with love and honesty can help our children heal their past. What was your biggest takeaway from the discussion? What's one small step? You're inspired to take a look at beyond a child's behavior and see the trauma that may be underneath. The conversation doesn't end here, though, and you can find even more of Stacy's wisdom in her debut book, With Love from a Children's Therapist. I love that the chapter titles are emojis too, which perfectly capture her modern, relatable approach. You can get a copy and learn more about Stacy's work at author Stacy.
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Schaeffer.com Again, we'll put that in the show notes. And if you know another grandparent who could benefit from this message of hope and healing, please share this episode with them to Together we can help nurture a deeper, more lasting kind of healing for our families.
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And as we continue to nurture our children through adversity, it's vital to acknowledge and address the heavy topic of grief that so many of us carry. Whether it's the loss of a loved one or the loss of the family we once knew. Grief is a silent presence in many of our homes. Next Week on episode 82, prepare for a compassionate and insightful conversation with Dr. Jerry Woodbridge, a grief advocate and educator. Dr. Woodbridge specializes in helping grand families navigate the complex layers of grief to build a lasting legacy of hope. Join us to learn how to identify and process the grief that impacts not only us, but also our grandchildren. We'll explore how to find strength in our spiritual needs and personal struggles and discover practical ways to build a new path forward, one rooted in healing and hope. Tune in next week to find a new way to move through grief and build a stronger, more hopeful future for your family. Thank you for tuning in to grandparents, raising grandchildren, Nurturing through Adversity. Remember, you are not alone. Together we can find strength and hope in the face of adversity. Peace be with you, and I pray that you find some time this week to listen to your inner wisdom amongst the noise and the pandemonium of this world.
