Dr. Dale Atkins on Healing Childhood Trauma and Grandparent Grief

WEBVTT

00:00:00.800 --> 00:00:53.049
What happens when the CEO of a family realizes they can no longer do every job in the company? As grandparents raising grandchildren, we often feel the pressure to be the high energy playmate, the cook, the therapist, and the disciplinarian, all while our own bodies are telling us to slow down. Today I'm joined by the legendary Dr. Dale Atkinson. Dale is a licensed psychologist with more than 40 years of experience as a relationship expert focusing on families wellness, managing stress, and living a balanced, meaningful life. She's the author of seven books and many chapters, articles and journals for popular and professional audiences. Dale has appeared regularly on NBC's Today and CNN. She also leads seminars worldwide and has two children and six grandchildren.

00:00:56.250 --> 00:01:44.579
Welcome to Grandparents Raising Nurturing through Adversity. In this podcast, we will delve deep into the challenges and triumphs of grandparents raising grandchildren as we navigate the complexities of legal, financial and emotional support. I invite you to join us on a journey of exploring thoughts, feelings and beliefs surrounding this growing segment of our society. Drawing from real stories and expert advice, we will explore the nuances of child rearing for children who have experienced trauma and offer valuable resources to guide you through the intricate journey of kinship care.

00:01:47.310 --> 00:02:00.030
We'll discuss how we can change the course of history by rewriting our grandchildren's future, all within a supportive community that understands the unique joys and struggles.

00:02:01.790 --> 00:02:04.750
This podcast was made especially for you.

00:02:06.189 --> 00:02:15.239
Welcome to a community where your voice is heard, your experiences are valued, and your journey is honored.

00:02:22.758 --> 00:02:32.919
I was watching my grandchildren run circles in the yard and I felt a physical ache in my chest that had nothing to do with my heart and everything to do with my age.

00:02:34.118 --> 00:02:40.479
I wrote in my journal, I want to be the grandmother who runs with him, but my knees just won't let me.

00:02:41.360 --> 00:03:38.960
Last week I was teaching my grandson how to ride a bike, and I really got up the speed, but I just couldn't go any faster. And my grandson said, come on, Grandma, run like you mean it. Well, I laughed so hard I had to stop. But I stay as healthy as I can because I know I need to stay healthy for everyone. But sometimes my arthritis hurts and I just can't get down on the floor like I used to. I read a quote from Dr. Dale Atkins about the intergenerational anchor. I realized that my grandchildren don't need me to be their track coach. They need me to be their sanctuary, their rock. In my book, the Invisible CEO, I talk about the staffing strategy, the moment a leader stops to be the entire staff and starts building a team. Dr.

00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:57.810
Atkins is the preeminent voice on this intergenerational bridge. She reminds us that our memories of significant elders aren't based on how fast they ran, but on how they made us feel. Today, we bridge the gap between our physical limitations and our spiritual influence.

00:03:58.689 --> 00:04:20.610
Dale. I recently shared a journal entry about feeling a disconnect. I realized I was trying to shield my grandkids from their pain while suppressing my own secondary grief, this loss of the life that I had before I became a parent. Again, your work suggests that healing starts with naming the emotion.

00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:31.519
But for the 2.7 million of us, those emotions are sometimes complicated by legal battles and family trauma. So where do we begin?

00:04:32.160 --> 00:05:04.839
It's an important question, and I'm so glad to be able to talk about it with you. It's complicated, and there are multiple feelings at the same time, and there are multiple emotions. So we start with the one that seems to come to the surface the most frequently. And we don't have to fix it. We just have to recognize it. And if we recognize it, we notice it, we can name it. And it doesn't have to be one name. It can be several, because it could be a combination. You know, it's a weave.

00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:38.519
All of these emotions are part of our fabric, and when we pull one, it will loosen another and tighten another. And that's the way the day goes. Because so much of the day is very unpredictable, I suggest that people quiet themselves. Because when we're very emotional, there's a lot of things going on and we're bubbling a lot and just quiet ourselves and sometimes even put our hand on our heart, remembering that we have our heart that we have to protect, Take a few breaths, and then just think, how am I feeling at this moment?

00:05:40.129 --> 00:05:50.769
What am I feeling at this moment? There's no right or wrong answer. Because you can say, well, that's not really it. It's really this. Okay, we're gonna feel that.

00:05:51.329 --> 00:06:17.769
But just allow yourself to be in touch with whatever emotion it is. And you said, as so many of us do. You know, I was trying to shield my grandchild from my emotions, but I also didn't want to deal with it myself. We have to be able to recognize what we are feeling in order to be able to be present for the children in an honest and trustworthy way.

00:06:18.649 --> 00:06:29.930
Because so many grandparents who are raising their grandchildren are in situations where there was a real breach of trust with the children.

00:06:30.410 --> 00:07:22.610
And the children often have lived in very chaotic situations, very unpredictable situations, and often not able to really recognize, let alone express their feelings. In ways that are healthy. So the grandparent has a very unique role in being able to help a child pay attention to their feelings, not judge them, not be critical of them, but let them name their feelings. And we can do that better if we know how to do it, and then we can help them express those feelings in healthy ways. Their expression of their emotional life is not so healthy for them and everybody else in the family, but it's a place to start, both for us and for the children. That's great advice.

00:07:23.660 --> 00:07:41.100
I know in the Turquoise Butterfly, you use metaphor to talk about big feelings. For a grandparent who's raising a child who's experienced familial disruption, how can they use story to explain a situation that maybe even the adults don't fully understand?

00:07:42.459 --> 00:08:11.199
I love that question. Because there's an assumption that adults are supposed to understand or theory. Yeah, we don't. No. We are often as surprised as the children, the way things go. We are all generally pretty hopeful or we've given up hope. Whatever it is, we don't really understand. So many of us take so much time and effort to try and figure out if I'd only done this or if she'd only done that or why didn't that happen?

00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:30.420
And it's very normal and it's very predictable, but it's not very helpful. So one of the things that I think is helpful and what I did in the Turquoise Butterfly is to help children through their. In this case, it's a grandmother and her little granddaughter is with her one week a year.

00:08:30.420 --> 00:09:18.100
It's not 24, seven, it's one week a year. But she's present in her life. And what they do is they have experiences and they look for things in nature that can be teaching them about life. So in the backyard, the grandmother has a garden, and there happens to be a caterpillar. And they watch the caterpillar transform into the chrysalis. And then over time, that chrysalis emerges into a butterfly, and it struggles and struggles, and then it flies away. And so that story is not only for the change and the transformation that can happen and that nothing happens without a struggle. But what do you need when you are incorporating that struggle into your life?

00:09:18.179 --> 00:09:55.789
Well, you need safety, you need love, you need consistency. You need to be able to be who you are and work it through and work it out, knowing that you will get out the other side. So you need hope. And how do you have hope when you're a child? You have someone who believes in you, someone who can really Encourage you even when you feel so terrible and so mixed up and so awful about yourself. So many kids feel that they are the cause of the fact that their mother or father is no longer taking care of them, even if their mother or father is dead.

00:09:56.190 --> 00:10:06.799
So it's the grandparent who can nurture as the child is going through the story. You know, it's kind of like being a butterfly.

00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:25.600
Look at what's going on here. And then we're going to get through this, and then you'll fly, and then you'll be free to express yourself or to go to places. What is it you want to do? Even if you're having trouble reading, you know, it's so hard. I think it's important that we always tell true stories. We don't think of our stories.

00:10:25.759 --> 00:11:39.480
You get along that in fairy tales. But when grandparents are communicating what their story is, or a story of a friend or a story of, you know, your cousin had a very similar situation, it not only makes the kids feel that they are part of a family, that they have lineage, that they have rootedness. And so many grandchildren who are being raised by their grandparents need to get roots again because they've been plucked up and we need to root them again. How do you do that? Just like with a garden, it doesn't grow up right away. You have to nourish it, you have to pat the soil, you have to feed it, you have to water it. And that's what you do through your story. You tell a story about struggle from the beginning, the middle, and the end. And not all stories about struggle turn out real well. These kids know that more than anyone because often their parents are struggling while the grandparent is taking care of them. So they're worrying. And you acknowledge the worry. I know you're thinking about your mom now. I know you're thinking about the choices that she made and why don't we talk about that? Bring order to chaos.

00:11:40.039 --> 00:12:15.500
And I often suggest this with families that they don't go too far to the other side. Because a lot of these kids, one of them can become very controlling. They can be very precise because they want to know what's going to happen. They need some predictability in their life. So we have to honor that, pay attention to it, not discard it nor disregard it. But say, you know, today we can be a little looser. We can be a little loosey goosey. And with young kids, you know, let's just wear our pajamas today. Oh, my God, let's have dessert first.

00:12:15.899 --> 00:12:26.299
You mix up the life in a way that's fun and out of the box a little. But they're still safe. It's still okay.

00:12:27.340 --> 00:12:52.580
Kids can write their own stories. I love to encourage grandparents and parents to have a story that the kid tells them or you've guided them or what happened today. And then they write their story. Maybe they illustrate it, or maybe you've taken photographs and then you make a storybook. So easy today to make storybooks, but I kind of like the crafty ones that we used to make when we were younger.

00:12:52.659 --> 00:13:02.820
Yeah, because it's very tactile, it's very kinesthetic. And I find that the more engaged children are using all of their senses, the more comfortable they are.

00:13:03.220 --> 00:13:21.580
Because, I mean, some kids have been abused, some kids are very resistant to touch, Some kids are overly engaging with their physical beings. It's all about balance and patience. So they can write a story. Now, they may be writing their own story, but it's about a little puppy or it's about a bird.

00:13:22.059 --> 00:13:36.629
And let them choose the symbol, let them choose the sign, and see what struggles this bird has or this little puppy has, and see where it takes you instead of guiding. Well, that's interesting.

00:13:37.429 --> 00:13:56.070
Wow, I wouldn't have thought of that. Oh, that's a surprise. So there's no criticism, there's curiosity, there's encouragement. And I think that that's the way to help kids work through things with story, with symbols, with signs.

00:13:56.309 --> 00:15:09.009
I remember we used to play those songs all the time when we dance after dinner. So there is continuity. Even where there's pain, it's delicate. We have to constantly take care of ourselves so that we're able to go into places that are dark and shine the light for ourselves and the grandchildren. I have found that unstructured, simple playtime is so therapeutic, isn't it? Yes, it is. And it's really where the creativity blossoms. You know, when you go out in nature and you bring all kinds of things that you found, and then you create an art project or you use them in certain ways. I know with children whose parents are incarcerated, sometimes it's very helpful for them to be able to write notes, and they might find something, and then they can glue it on, create a little collage, and send that with a note or a letter. And there is something about a child being able to create something or to sing into a recording on the phone and send a file, making a song, their own song or something. Great advice.

00:15:09.490 --> 00:15:26.879
They have to be encouraged to be themselves. Many children who are being raised by Their grandparents were discouraged to be themselves. You know, be quiet, get out of my way. I don't want you to be part of my life because I can't take care of you. And it's not safe, but it's felt.

00:15:26.960 --> 00:16:37.090
Yeah. When a child is feeling that way, the grandparent has this incredible job, responsibility, opportunity to make a place of gentle comfort and space and be able to encourage. What do you think we should do with this? Even with cupping, you know, the recipe says, what do you think we should add? And, yeah. And the child can become much more him or herself without criticism. That creativity then will generalize into lots of other spaces of that child's life. Picking their clothes, deciding how they want to wear their hair, when organizing the room where they stay. I think that giving kids agency and control where they previously had no control and there was so much disruption is a way to help them organize. Then their brains can settle down, their nervous system can settle down, and it helps to regulate their nervous system.

00:17:17.700 --> 00:17:28.769
Interesting. I think that's an area where I've had to let go. I've had to let go a little bit of control over how I want them to dress or what kind of games they want to play.

00:17:29.569 --> 00:17:51.089
So I'm glad that you brought that up. You've advised families for 40 years. I've learned from families for 40 years. Great way of putting it. In your experience, what do you think is the biggest hurdle that the system puts in the way of kinship caregivers, specifically when they're trying to foster resilience?

00:17:52.129 --> 00:21:40.319
Expectations. I think there are expectations for grandparents to raise these grandchildren in a way that may not come naturally to them, that may not be familiar to them or maybe familiar, but doesn't fit into the mold that the system demands. And I think it puts enormous stress on the grandparents. I also think that it discourages advocacy, self advocacy. When people really know what a child needs and wants and wants to advocate for that, it's often very challenging and very difficult because there's a lot of judgment. Yeah. Grandparents feel that judgment a lot. And they're not given as much leeway as parents are for getting it right or doing it right. They generally don't have the support systems that parents have. Their peers are in a totally different place and often don't have the patience to understand that things come up and they're not going to be as available or that they've scheduled something and they can't do what everybody else is doing. And yet they're not in the group of young parents because those Young parents aren't looking at them as peers. So I think that there's often a lot of loneliness with grandparents raising their grandchildren. Absolutely. And sometimes there's more worry and fear because they're older. The expectations I think are you'll be able to do this, you know, just like a 35 year old. Well, actually, you know, I'm doing my best and I think that we have to be able to say this is the expectation that I have and it may be a little high, but this is realistic and this is reasonable and I'm doing the best I can and that is really good enough. You know, years ago there was a book called the Good Enough Mother and we just have to say this is really good enough. It's good enough for right now because number one, I'm exhausted. I just spent all this time in social services and the teacher was late and my kid acted out of school. And it's really good enough. And it's good enough that we're having a really simple dinner. It's amazing. I got dinner on the table altogether. And to give ourselves permission to do the best we can today and tomorrow's another day. So how can we be hopeful for that tomorrow? And how can we really focus on what this child needs now at this moment and what do we need now at this moment and how can we try and bring them together? And it could be, you know, in the Turquoise Butterfly, when the little girl gets very anxious because the current comes. They're in the ocean and the current comes at her grandmother's floating away. She's floating away, she's really getting nervous and the grandmother just says, lean back, look at the sky and sing this little tune. Well, that obviously came from a way to self soothe and it's butterfly, butterfly in the sky like a flower floating by. When you see a butterfly blue, know that I am here with you. So there's the reinstatement of you're not alone in your fear. I'm here for you. The child incorporates that and I like to ask people to do that in whatever way they like before they go to bed with their kids, when they are in their bedtime ritual, if they have a bedtime ritual, which I always encourage, if you're reading or if you're reviewing the day, who was kind to you? What did you do that was really hard? And how did you get through it and then have something. It could be a prayer, it could be like the Turquoise butterfly little poem. Know that I am here with you Even when I'm in my room over there. I'm part of you, you're part of me. We are together all the time. And that's what love is. That's what love does.

00:21:40.719 --> 00:21:44.240
There's no boundaries. It's got lots and lots of space.

00:21:44.799 --> 00:22:14.059
And if a child hears that night after night after night, and if they go to school knowing, remember, butterfly blue, I'm always here with you, or whatever the sign is or the symbol is, that is the reinforcer that the child, no matter what worries they have, no matter what intrusive thoughts they have, they can breathe, they can quiet themselves, they can visualize their grandmother or their grandpa or both of them on either shoulder, and they can say, I'm not alone.

00:22:14.939 --> 00:22:52.909
They think that when the expectations of a system, a large system, doesn't leave space or the reality of the importance of grandparenting a child who is not able to be parented by their parent and doesn't encourage that space and that uniqueness of that connection, because it is a different connection from a parent. There are different stories, there are different time frames, there's a different rhythm.

00:22:53.309 --> 00:23:54.049
Often there is different schedule, but there is a different perspective. And grandparents bring wisdom in a way that typically other generations don't have because they haven't lived that long and they haven't internalized and gotten through with the resilience that they needed. All that they've gone through that brings them to this moment when they are raising their grandchildren. I think that for a system, whether it's the legal system, the social services and the educational system, when those systems open up their eyes and their hearts to this group of people who are raising kin, it changes things. It's welcoming, first of all, it's supportive. It gives room for innovation and creativity because you're not having to be lockstep.

00:23:55.809 --> 00:24:05.329
Don't you think that the wisdom of grandparents of older people is not recognized enough in this society?

00:24:06.609 --> 00:24:18.139
I do, my Jew. If you could change one law or social norm to help these 2.7 million families navigate loss and resilience more effectively.

00:24:18.219 --> 00:25:54.979
I don't know what law I would change, but I do know what norm I would change. I would be more inclusive and more allowing of people to tell their stories and to not feel shame when they are trying to struggle through a situation. And for many families, as you know better than most people, are trying to balance the multiple emotions. They can be worried, they can be concerned if their child is still alive, they could be in a life and death situation and they never know exactly what's going to be happening if they're incarcerated or they're in rehab or if they're on the streets or whatever it is that's a type of mourning they're going through, and grief, which is often mixed with regret and anger. When a society blames people for where they are in life, when most of us are just trying to do the best we can and make the best out of a really, really challenging situation, I would welcome that. I would welcome people not being critical and being able to be curious and say, tell me more about what's going on. Not because they're nosy, but because they're curious. And the curiosity can lead to, how can I be most helpful? What can I do as your friend, as your community member, as your person who sits next to you in the pew on Sunday or Saturday, if I see you at the market, how can I be helpful?

00:25:55.240 --> 00:26:10.279
I can't be helpful. If I don't know what is unique to your situation, then we're not going to get anywhere. That's going to be very helpful. So that's a norm that I would like to change.

00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:18.599
And I think we can start with being able to tell our stories. We always tell the good stories.

00:26:18.679 --> 00:26:26.049
Well, okay, Stories are ongoing, and we may get to the story in the good part.

00:26:27.250 --> 00:27:21.199
And then there's a drive. How do we tell that story? How do we live that story? And then what do we tell about it after everybody is in this together? And I think that sometimes people feel that when a grandparent is parenting their grandchild that somehow there's some kind of thing that's going on dangerous, and then they can't get too close because, I don't know, they're doing something very different rather than. And I'm not speaking for everyone, but I'm looking at it from a macro level. What if we all did this? You know, if there's somebody in your neighborhood who you see is raising a grandchild, go over and introduce yourself and say hi and introduce your kids. Don't get so fixated with the age and the stage, but just the activity of raising children that we can all contribute to. Does that answer your question?

00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:30.159
I think that, again, the caregiving for ourselves as caregivers is really important.

00:27:30.719 --> 00:28:08.349
If you're a neighbor or a family member and you notice what's going on, why stay? As is the case with some families, the grandparents are raising their grandchild together or grandchildren together, and then one of the couple gets really sick. Now, that's not an unusual thing to happen. As you get older, spouses will decline. We Talk about that in the book. The grandmother gets sick and ultimately passes away, and the grandchild has to get ready for that and adapt to that and keep the grandmother within her.

00:28:08.990 --> 00:28:23.539
But here in this situation, caring for a spouse or significant other, while caring for grandchildren, while concerning about a child is an awful lot. And it's so common.

00:28:24.099 --> 00:29:57.719
But there are parts of that story and say, oh, it's okay, you know, we're hanging in there, we're doing well. And sure, you want to say that to some people, but I. My feeling is there are a lot more people who could be helpful in some way in one piece of that puzzle that can take your whole life and run it. But one piece of that puzzle might be able to be helped, and that can lighten the load. There are few things more purposeful, more gratifying, more difficult than raising grandchildren. Sometimes when we only focus on the heavy, we forget about the opportunities that this child has to be rooted in and a part of and exposed to. Hopefully healthy role models, healthy opportunities to grow and to learn and to be a part of a larger family and learn the rituals and the customs and the traditions in a healthy way. You mentioned before we started recording that you have a relationship with a family that is raising a grandchild. What is the one thing that you would tell the world about the emotional courage that it takes to step back into the parenting CEO role? I think they're heroes.

00:29:58.039 --> 00:30:13.079
I really do. I think they're courageous and I think that they are doing their best. They are learning a lot. Their child is an atypical child, so they're learning a lot about children like this child.

00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:36.009
And they are also caring from afar, the parent of this child. And I think that I would like people to know that they're doing something that's not familiar. Because when you say stepping back into the parenting role, when we parented, we were different. We were less experienced, but we were much younger. Many of us had a lot more energy.

00:30:36.329 --> 00:31:53.459
We didn't have some of the physical issues that we have now, but we have more wisdom, more experience. And we may parent differently. We may parent the way we thought we would grandparent, but it has a lot more responsibilities because we're involved more with the everyday decision making. We're involved more with boundaries, building resiliency, helping with identity formation. But we are also dealing with what happened before we took over the role. That is where the courage comes in. You see what you are getting and you willingly open the door and you go in. You may not know all that there is. There but you're willing to learn. You're willing to develop the patience you need, you're willing to develop the courage you need. You're willing to try and get the support you need. And that's really amazing. I think it's amazing. I always say grandparents are more than babysitters. We're teachers. We're sharers of the stories. We are the memory keepers, and we're also memory makers. But when you're doing it full time, you are straddling the role of parent and grandparent. And that's something. It's like double duty. You haven't stopped parenting. Even if your child has died, there's still a part of your life.

00:31:53.939 --> 00:32:51.439
There are still, you know, the life, the life in your heart, the life of memory, the life of birthdays, the life of holidays, all of it. And then you can see your child in your grandchild in certain ways. So how you manage that and are you comfortable talking about the stories before things went sour and why things went sour and how things go worse hour and how you all got along or didn't get along? These are our stories. And a resilient person, an honest person, can integrate those stories into a life that still has hope, that still has encouragement, that fosters creativity and learning and academics and sports and music and dancing and everything in a child who will want to still be connected to their parent.

00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:55.599
And it's very delicate. Absolutely.

00:32:56.959 --> 00:33:00.559
But it's not impossible. Thank you, Dale.

00:33:00.799 --> 00:34:27.099
Your wisdom and experience is invaluable to this audience. Thank you for having me on. You are doing an amazing service by building a supportive community where people can really talk about their experience, even though every family is different and no one has exactly the same experience as someone else. Knowing that you're not alone as a grandparent raising a grandchild is very, very comforting. To be able to have a forum is really comforting. We can't do these incredible jobs alone. We must have support. There are more people in our extended communities raising grandchildren than we typically know. Sometimes just putting out the word and saying, let's get together is useful. It's all about connection. My book, the Turquoise Butterfly, is all about connection. Connection between the grandparent and the grandchild, the natural world, the environment, connecting with oneself, recognizing when you're nervous, inside, recognizing when you're bold. It's all about connection. I think that the wisdom that older people have and they can share with one another about raising their grandchildren is fantastic. And we need communities that are supportive.

00:34:29.980 --> 00:34:37.490
Thanks, Dale. Would you let the listeners know what where they can find your beautiful book, the Turquoise Butterfly. Thank you.

00:34:37.650 --> 00:34:50.690
Here it is. Covers lovely. Thank you. The Turquoise Butterfly. But if you look online you can find it. I have a website and it's www.drdaletkins.com.

00:34:51.410 --> 00:35:55.410
there is a QR code that they can use to go to the publisher or they can order it at the local bookstore or on Amazon or Barnes and Noble. But if you go to my website, you can click there and your order will be sent directly to the publisher if that's what you'd like to do. I really love people to read it and I encourage them to give me feedback about their stories. I'm delighted with the stories that people share with me about their own grandparenting experience as grandparents or their memories of being with a grandparent or a great aunt, aunt or uncle or some very significant person in their life who was an older person from another generation or two and how they influenced them, how they still influence them as they think about them. Because I think the more we are able to connect intergenerationally, the better we are as a society. Oh, I agree. Thank you.

00:35:55.490 --> 00:37:04.510
Thank you for the opportunity to talk with you in this setting. I really wish you well. I know you've made lots of changes and I hope that as you replant yourselves that you will meet lovely people, that you will continue your artistic expression. Sometimes when people become grandparents full time, they put aside some of the things that they like to do or looked forward to doing and some of those things have to do with the creative side. Singing, writing music, playing music, doing art, writing, poetry, reading more. I encourage people to do those things because their identity is not just I'm a grandparent raising a grandchild. Their identity has other aspects to it. It's really good for the grandchildren to see these other aspects of their grandparents life as well. Yes, definitely. Share them with your grandchildren. Yes, yes. As an artist I get to teach them art and we draw together and it gives me a lot of pleasure and it does them. That's great advice, Dale. Thanks for your time. I wish you all the best.

00:37:05.628 --> 00:37:19.720
Thank you. Here's your quick win today from our conversation with Dale. Identify your high value low energy tasks. As a CEO, your highest value is emotional regulation. We wisdom and storytelling.

00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:26.599
These require very little physical output but have the highest return on investment for a child's healing.

00:37:27.400 --> 00:38:35.300
Today outsource one high energy task. Whether it's asking a neighbor's teenager to play tag with the kids for 30 minutes or using a grocery delivery service to save your legs, give yourself back that energy use that saved fuel to sit quiet quietly and read a book with your grandchild. Dr. Atkins mentioned that we all have memories of a significant older person who influenced us. I want to hear yours reply to this email or comment on the show. Notes who was the elder in your life? Who made you feel safe? And what was the one thing they did that had nothing to do with high energy and everything to do with high love? If you haven't yet, make sure you download our 72 hours survival guide. Follow the link on the front page of our website. It's the first step in moving from survival to significance. You are the keeper of the Future. We are 2.7 million strong, still nurturing and still here. I'm Laura Brazan and I'll see you in the next boardroom.